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this is a claim shockingly contrary to what every artist I know, and I myself as an amateur, believe

petralithic 1y ago
Which artists care about coding AI like Copilot? All the ones I talked to simply do not care. Regarding economic means, I asked them whether they'd care if they lived in a post scarcity society where they could make art all day and not have to worry about their material needs being met, ie they're rich, and it turns out if that were the case, they didn't care about what people did with AI, be it image generation or code generation.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- jclulow 1y ago
  Where can I sign up for the post scarcity society? Asking for my artist friends.
  - petralithic 1y ago
    You can't, hence my point about their fear being economic, not philosophical.
- magicalist 1y ago
  Sounds like you were maybe having some one-sided conversations with all the many artists you spoke to.
  - petralithic 1y ago
    Ah yes, because you disagree with me, I must have been having one sided conversations. I suppose some people just can't accept other people's experiences without denigrating them.
- xantronix 1y ago
  As an artist, I do not dread AI's artistic capabilities from a philosophical standpoint because its apparent "humanity" is a distilled average entirely divorced from the contexts in which its stolen art inputs are provided. In this way, it is categorically devoid of meaning. As a software developer, I dread AI's capabilities to greatly accelerate the accumulation of technical debt in a codebase when used by somebody who lacks the experience to temper its outputs. I also dread AI's capabilities, at least in the short term, to separate me and others from economic opportunities.
  - petralithic 1y ago
    That's because, if I'm inferring correctly what you're implying in the last sentence, you work primarily as a software developer. Try telling a working artist your first paragraph or that they shouldn't worry about AI taking their commission work for example and see what they think.
- Palomides 1y ago
  so here's the thing, artists like making the art, skipping the making leaves you with nothing most artists I know are against AI because they feel it is anti-human, devaluing and alienating both the viewer and the creator some can tolerate it as a tool, and some (as is long art tradition) will use it to offend or be contrarian, but these are not the common position if I were a spherical cow in a vacuum with infinite time, and nobody around me had economic incentives to make things with it, I could, maybe, in the spirit of openness, tolerate knowing some people somewhere want to use it... but I still wouldn't want to see its output
  - petralithic 1y ago
    They don't have to use AI though, they can leave people who do alone. But that's not what I see, I see artists getting mad at the latter and when I dig deep, it turns out they're scared it'll take their digital commission work. This has primarily been my experience talking with artists I commission as well as people online on Twitter and reddit for example.
    - Palomides 1y ago
      sure, it's hard for an artist to compete on price with AI, and the ones who depend on this kind of ultra low budget work will have a hard time (and have a direct economic self-interest in advocating against) but again, that's not what I see in the people around me
      - petralithic 1y ago
        And that's my point. It was never about the philosophy, it was always about the economics. That's what frustrates me, why lie? If it's money you want then ask for it, don't make up some bullshit.
        evilsetg 1y ago
        But are philosophy and economics so neatly separable in this case? Say you hold the philosophical belief that humans creating art is important but the economics don't allow it. In that case the root of your argument is philosophical and the economics factor into it but are not the single argument itself.

Which artists care about coding AI like Copilot? All the ones I talked to simply do not care. Regarding economic means, I asked them whether they'd care if they lived in a post scarcity society where they could make art all day and not have to worry about their material needs being met, ie they're rich, and it turns out if that were the case, they didn't care about what people did with AI, be it image generation or code generation.

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
jclulow 1y ago
Where can I sign up for the post scarcity society? Asking for my artist friends.
- petralithic 1y ago
  You can't, hence my point about their fear being economic, not philosophical.
magicalist 1y ago
Sounds like you were maybe having some one-sided conversations with all the many artists you spoke to.
- petralithic 1y ago
  Ah yes, because you disagree with me, I must have been having one sided conversations. I suppose some people just can't accept other people's experiences without denigrating them.
xantronix 1y ago
As an artist, I do not dread AI's artistic capabilities from a philosophical standpoint because its apparent "humanity" is a distilled average entirely divorced from the contexts in which its stolen art inputs are provided. In this way, it is categorically devoid of meaning. As a software developer, I dread AI's capabilities to greatly accelerate the accumulation of technical debt in a codebase when used by somebody who lacks the experience to temper its outputs. I also dread AI's capabilities, at least in the short term, to separate me and others from economic opportunities.
- petralithic 1y ago
  That's because, if I'm inferring correctly what you're implying in the last sentence, you work primarily as a software developer. Try telling a working artist your first paragraph or that they shouldn't worry about AI taking their commission work for example and see what they think.
Palomides 1y ago
so here's the thing, artists like making the art, skipping the making leaves you with nothing most artists I know are against AI because they feel it is anti-human, devaluing and alienating both the viewer and the creator some can tolerate it as a tool, and some (as is long art tradition) will use it to offend or be contrarian, but these are not the common position if I were a spherical cow in a vacuum with infinite time, and nobody around me had economic incentives to make things with it, I could, maybe, in the spirit of openness, tolerate knowing some people somewhere want to use it... but I still wouldn't want to see its output
- petralithic 1y ago
  They don't have to use AI though, they can leave people who do alone. But that's not what I see, I see artists getting mad at the latter and when I dig deep, it turns out they're scared it'll take their digital commission work. This has primarily been my experience talking with artists I commission as well as people online on Twitter and reddit for example.
  - Palomides 1y ago
    sure, it's hard for an artist to compete on price with AI, and the ones who depend on this kind of ultra low budget work will have a hard time (and have a direct economic self-interest in advocating against) but again, that's not what I see in the people around me
    - petralithic 1y ago
      And that's my point. It was never about the philosophy, it was always about the economics. That's what frustrates me, why lie? If it's money you want then ask for it, don't make up some bullshit.
      - evilsetg 1y ago
        But are philosophy and economics so neatly separable in this case? Say you hold the philosophical belief that humans creating art is important but the economics don't allow it. In that case the root of your argument is philosophical and the economics factor into it but are not the single argument itself.