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Apple sues Polish grocery store over the letter A
- tobylane 14y agoThe update, that isn't in the title: It may actually be the logo. The logo has the leaf in exactly the same place, and the h is similar to the missing bite of the apple. The h being there looks fairly ugly, it does seem intentional to me.
- cvrajeesh 14y agoDoes that really looks like Apple logo... ofcourse not!!! I feel this is ridiculous. In future we won't be able teach our children "A" for "Apple" because of this trademarks and patents
- tobylane 14y agoI don't think intentional really matters, I just said it because of the feelings around Apple. That logo should be illegal, but it shouldn't be used because it's too obvious.
- Gigablah 14y agoThat's really stretching it though, since the logo in question looks more like an orange than an apple.
- panacea 14y agoA shiny green orange?
- Gigablah 14y agoYes, there are green oranges! Just do a Google search. They're quite tasty.
- ajuc 14y agoI think it's supposed to be an abstract fruit, nothing specific. It isn't really apple-shaped, just perfect circle. And green color is commonly associated with being fresh.
- panacea 14y agoReminded me that Apple had a trademark suit against Woolworths (Woolies) in Australia a few years ago for using a 'fresh fruit' logo that looked a bit like an Apple. http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/apple-woolworths-in-australian-trademark-dispute-media-in-hys/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/apple-woolworths-in-austr... My takeaway from this is that trademark lawyers do their thing because they have to be seen to be protecting their trademarks, and I'm patently sick of the whole Apple legal patent/copyright stories that I'm just going to filter them from now on. Lawyers be being lawyers.
- vacri 14y agoApples aren't spheres, so they don't match either.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- chalst 14y agoThe Polish website Telepolis is reporting that Apple demanded that the Urząd Patentowy Rzeczypospolitej Polskiej (Poland’s Patent Office) cancel the trademark belonging to A.PL Internet SA. The first meeting actually took place on August 29, but it was adjourned and deferred to a later date. This doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Does the Polish patent office really deal with the award of trademarks? Postscript - Indeed it does: http://www.uprp.pl/znaki-towarowe-informacje-podstawowe/Lead05,30,1707,4,index,pl,text/ http://www.uprp.pl/znaki-towarowe-informacje-podstawowe/Lead... (there's a translation tool embedded in the page).
- mrich 14y agoIt seems the easiest way to get publicity and free advertising these days is to create a brand somehow involving an apple and wait for the lawyers.
- olive_ 14y agoTotally agree. But the other ones were not as ridiculous as this one.
- noonespecial 14y agoSounds like someone from management needs to head down to legal and tell them that maybe now might not be the best time in the world to make themselves look like a bunch of courtroom bullies as billions (with a b) of dollars are riding on their pending cases. (Public opinion notwithstanding) The job of management is to tell legal that sometimes even though you can do something, you probably shouldn't. I'm sure in this case some sharp legal tack will start in with something about defending trademarks to keep them in force etc. This is where a manager takes some responsibility and decides that that's a acceptable risk in order to keep the company from looking like a cosmic dick.
- lazugod 14y agoThe common refrain is that trademarks must be defended even in far fetched cases, else you'll automatically lose them. I'm curious how many people protest that facet of law, given the many protests against patents.
- praptak 14y agoCompared to patents, trademarks do not really generate that much abuse of the law. On top of that everybody seems to agree that their benefits (i.e. prevent businesses from confusing consumers) totally outweigh downsides, which is not the case with patents. The rare cases of abuse actually generate quite a lot of bad publicity.
- noonespecial 14y agoIts far from automatic. In any case, all they'd have to do is send a polite letter to the little store granting them the perpetual right to be similar in the way that the currently are. As SJ said, "not that big a deal".
- mbesto 14y agoPlaying devil's advocate here... Does the general public really care about a company bullying other companies legally? Are consumers really not going to buy a specific product because the company is suing an insignificant company? And if so, how much is impacting sales? I realize there probably is not enough substantial evidence to support a rational conclusion to this question. However, considering EVERY large company does this, I don't see how this is going to harm the bottom line. Is it unethical? That's another question. ps- I do agree with most people here that these legal arguments are getting quite asinine.
- gbin 14y agoI thought trademark issues were only relevant in the same sector. I mean apple cannot forbid you to put the word "apple" or an apple logo if you are selling the fruit no ?
- ricardobeat 14y agoThey're registered as A.pl internet. That's like saying instacart or amazon is a grocery store.
- ajuc 14y agoApple just given much more publicity to A.pl, than it could ever buy with its marketing budget :) Also the case will take 5 years and nothing will come out of it. That's how Polish courts work, and that's why nobody sues over stupid details like this in Poland.
- Tichy 14y agoBut how many readers of HN will be likely to shop in Poland?
- mootothemax 14y agoBut how many readers of HN will be likely to shop in Poland? Those that live here I guess - there's a good number of us.
- rrreese 14y agoAre you suggesting that this story is, and will only be discussed on Hacker news, and that local Polish media will not cover it extensively?
- geedee77 14y agoAre you American? Not being critical but I notice a lot of Americans seem to think that HN is only in America.
- Tichy 14y agoNo, just thinking that HN is a tiny fraction of the world population in general.
- ajuc 14y agoWykop.pl will surely pick up this story, regular media too.
- IsTom 14y agoWell. Me, at least. Probably half my office and half of any other IT office around. It's not like an average Joe is lazy enough to buy groceries through the internet, so the overlap between potential customers of a.pl and people who are interested in this case is not insignificant.
- oneandoneis2 14y agoAt this rate, how long before Apple start suing orchard owners for daring to grow a fruit that looks exactly like their logo? :)
- lifeisstillgood 14y agoThis is a trademark dispute - and there is one simple rule in International trademarks. If you stop defending your trademark every time, then you lose it. No-one at apple seriously thinks a polish supermarket is going to trade on the apple brand. But because it's close enough, they must sue. Otherwise the polish laptop maker who releases pomme d'terre range will be able to get in. If you don't beleve me, paint a red triangle outside your stall in Dar es salaam and see how fast the nabisco lawyers hit you. It's life. What is bad is there is not a word of damage control from Apple - with Jobs gone they no longer get the benefit of the doubt - and so IMO should explain every piece of evil / seeming evil they do very clearly. Just not in their DNA though.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y agoI can see why they don't - because it would likely make no difference at all. As you say, the rules on trademark protection are crystal clear and understood by anyone who takes 30 seconds to read up on them. Any journalists running this sort of story are either unprofessional enough not to do the necessary research (and would likely not bother connecting the story to a press release) or, more likely, understand exactly what's happening but are just click whoring (in which case they'll just ignore it). In either case though I don't see a press release from Apple would do anything - a lazy journalist won't care and nor will one just looking for the sensationalist story.
- lifeisstillgood 14y agoBecause news outlets are not peoples only source if news. Timcook.blog.apple.com would have been quoted thirty seconds after the OP got put up - but it does not exist. I can only surmise that apple does not reply directly because that sort of thing is not how apple works. Perhaps they should change.
- Tyrannosaurs 14y agoI think the people who believe these stories as an example of Apple's evil aren't going to give a hoot what Tim Cook may or may not say on a blog.
- ricardobeat 14y agoNice work editorializing the title. They are suing a company called "A.PL internet" that has an apple in its logo. Definitely not over the letter A.
- vixen99 14y agoits logo!
- benmmurphy 14y agoif apple can sue a.pl could whoever owns APL sue apple? I guess it is probably too late for APL though....
- buster 14y agoNo, that's correct. Apple obviously invented everything round, be it rounded icons or apples. And everything starting with a and having "pl" somewhere in it's name. Actually, i think Apple should sue everyone selling real apples or eating apples and every company that uses the words application, apprentice, appointment but also everything containing jobs, steve and silverish designs. But also they should be able to sue everyone for this but use LTE technology for free. Or the shitload of stuff others invented, like the smartphone or GSM.
- sasoon 14y agoI guess http://ap.pl/ http://ap.pl/ will be the next target
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- dzhiurgis 14y agoSomething says me it was all misunderstanding and this site was targeted in first place. After all NASDAQ:APPL...
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- bestes 14y agoWhy isn't this headline "US government forces Apple to sue Polish grocery store"?
- icebraining 14y agoWhy would it be?
- mikemoka 14y agoThat's the problem with a company heavily based on the charisma, creativity and the aura of a single person, no matter how great he or her was. When that person passes away the company loses confidence, and poor decisions ensue.
- fwr 14y agoYes, I'm 100% confident that every single decision from their legal department went through Jobs. Enough with this crap.
- mikemoka 14y agoOf course not, but the aggressive legal strategy that we are witnessing nowadays is something that has clearly been decided at the top in my opinion.
- panacea 14y agoApple logo suit from 2009: http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/apple-woolworths-in-australian-trademark-dispute-media-in-hys/ http://www.engadget.com/2009/10/05/apple-woolworths-in-austr... Your opinion is demonstrably wrong. Bonus link, what you're experiencing is an example of cognitive bias because of priming. With the Samsung case fresh in your memory, you see Apple as launching a whole new wave of litigation, when their lawyers have been being lawyers all along: http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Priming http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Priming "A simple example is the familiar "red car" phenomenon where a person who buys a red car suddenly starts seeing red cars everywhere. The familiarity of the red car primes them to spot other red cars faster."
- mikemoka 14y agoThis demonstrates that you are educated and have a special love for teaching, an adorable trait that, honestly, I very much appreciate. I would like for you to consider though that priming might not apply here unless Apple legal team has been doing this stuff more than once before Steve Jobs passed away, and I just didn't notice or remember a single article about it. Not to mention that the case you pointed me to (and more on http://www.engadget.com/search/?q=apple+trademark http://www.engadget.com/search/?q=apple+trademark) look way more legitimate, because there is some kind of a visual resemblance with the Apple logo, the grocery store on the other hand is totally different visually and I think it is extremely unlikely that a consumer may be confused by it.
- mootothemax 14y agoApparently this may be about one of a.pl's brands, fresh24.pl, whose logo looks like this: http://fresh24.pl/Images/logo.png http://fresh24.pl/Images/logo.png Personally, I think this is a storm in a teacup; Apple have to enforce their trademark, and be shown to be doing so in order to maintain their trademark rights.
- icebraining 14y agoThey don't need to sue to defend their trademark.
- hetman 14y agoCould you elaborate on the alternatives?
- drhowarddrfine 14y agoHe may be thinking that the Apple should have sent a warning letter first and attempted negotiating changes. I would bet they did that and, in most cases, that's the part of the story you never hear; that the offending company ignored the warning or was unwilling to negotiate.
- aliks 14y agoLogo is veryyyy simlary to Apple is all about Apple logo http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/4c/1a/be/z12458572X.jpg http://bi.gazeta.pl/im/4c/1a/be/z12458572X.jpg
- ajuc 14y agoIt's about this logo, I think: http://cdn.thenextweb.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/09/fresh24_logo-520x440.jpg http://cdn.thenextweb.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/1/files/2012/... Still not similiar enough, IMHO.
- 89a 14y agoNot this shit again. Don't we all know why this happens by now?
- k-mcgrady 14y agoIt's a trademark dispute. Apple doesn't have a choice, they have to defend their trademark or they will lose it. And they aren't disputing use of the letter 'A'. The article's been updated to show the Polish companies logo is an Apple, similar to Apple's own logo.
- icebraining 14y agoAs said above, they don't need to sue to defend it.
- hastur 14y agoCan't wait for this to bubble up to Polish mainstream media. (And it will, it's the perfect link bait / eyeball magnet.) Hasn't Apple heard what Poland did to ACTA? We love it when some big American entity comes pushing around and stepping on the little guy. We've got our pitchforks and torches always ready. Come, Apple, come.
- codeka 14y agoThis reminds me of a few years ago when Apple tried to get Woolworths (a supermarket chain in Australia) to stop using their new logo (a "W" styled in the shape of an apple)[1]. Apple lost that one, and I suspect that they'll probably lose this one, too. [1]: http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/apple-claims-woolies-is-getting-fresh-with-new-logo-20091004-ghxe.html http://www.smh.com.au/technology/biz-tech/apple-claims-wooli...
- hadem 14y agoAlso see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_Jack%27s#History_of_.22Burger_King.22_in_Australia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hungry_Jack%27s#History_of_.22...
- bobsy 14y agoWhat I find amusing is that Apple has almost certainly just raised the profile of a.pl and given them a boost. In the UK online food delivery is very competitive and businesses like this come and go fairly frequently. As soon as supermarkets get involved in home delivery these companies all start struggling. I think it is fairly obvious a.pl has nothing to do with Apple or their brand. If Apple had waiting there was a less than insignificant chance the company would run out steam anyway..
- curtin 14y ago2009: http://www.cio.com/article/504167/Sour_Apples_Apple_and_Woolworths_Battle_Over_Logo http://www.cio.com/article/504167/Sour_Apples_Apple_and_Wool... 2011: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8858333/Apple-takes-on-German-cafe-over-logo.html http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/apple/8858333/Apple-ta... In general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Trademarks.2C_Copyrights.2C_and_Patents http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._litigation#Trademark... Anyone noticing a pattern here?
- bluedanieru 14y agoIt's a supermarket; they're an electronics company. There is no possibility of confusion. They wouldn't have a case even against a supermarket chain just opened in the States named 'Apple'. (That's not to say they wouldn't win, because money makes people nod their heads.) Apple is awful.
- miszak 14y agoApple, please go on: http://www.nadgryzione.pl/ http://www.nadgryzione.pl/ http://www.ap.pl http://www.ap.pl ...
- forgottenpaswrd 14y agoIt is not about letter "a", but letters "A'pl", witch is different. I could be as angry as the next guy from Apple patenting geometric shapes and natural gestures and tech that was already invented 20 years ago, but this is a typical case of trademark dispute, and Apple could be right here. A pl could sound like Apple and so Apple needs to protect their trademark, or they could loose it, as someone already stated.
- mhd 14y agoErm, anybody remember Apple Corps vs Apple Computers[1]? So, how's them… ah, forget it. [1]: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v_Apple_Computer
- S4M 14y agoFunny they haven't sued Apple Records (company that produced the Beatles) yet.
- danielweber 14y agoThat case goes back decades. They settled long ago. ITunes caused trouble when Apple Computer got into the music business.
- devgutt 14y agoThis reminds me a Steve Blank's funny story about the letter "e" and Microsoft: http://steveblank.com/2012/08/20/when-microsoft-sued-us-over-the-letter-e/ http://steveblank.com/2012/08/20/when-microsoft-sued-us-over...
- gavanwoolery 14y ago"Yay Lawyers!" said no one.
- danielweber 14y agoI think Apple is very thuggish, but can we lose the link-baity and dramatic titles ("Apple sues Polish grocery store over the letter A")? I'm skeptical that even "A.pl" around a giant "a" with leaves coming out of it is enough to infringe on Apple's trade mark, but it's a much closer call than merely the letter a.
- basseq 14y agoAgreed. And it's not a "grocery store" it's an "online service" (dealing with the food industry). Granted, not Apple's core business, but a heck of a lot closer to their realm than a brick-and-mortar retail outfit. Apple suffers here because their trademark is an English word. (Though A.pl probably isn't intended to be a homonym for "apple" in Polish.)
- omi 14y agoWill not buy any more apple product, iphone 4s was enough trouble. Buddy convinced me getting one.
- dmbaggett 14y agoThese guys are next: http://www.aappll.com/ http://www.aappll.com/