4 ms·

Torrents are used legally all the time; it’s not always piracy.

by borski 1y ago

guywithahat 1y ago
Then I'm sure the developer of the app would be happy to screen for copyrighted content or malware, and attempt to remove it. It wouldn't even be hard, they could just poke a lightweight LLM at it and have the llm make the call, and maybe add a submission field to report illegal content.
- microtonal 1y ago
  Why? Should ISPs start MITM traffic? Internet connections can be used for downloading illegal content after all.
  - guywithahat 1y ago
    That’s what we’re preventing here. The agreement is ISP’s/infrastructure gets the clear, and applications need to regulate the content they host. If they stop regulating content, ISP’s will
    - akimbostrawman 1y ago
      That's nonsense using a disingenuous framing. Application like Browser have existed long before and after ISP DMCA exemptions, applications do not have any responsibility to enact laws on someone else's computer/property. Otherwise why not also remove safari since apple does not prevent copyright abuse there.
      - guywithahat 1y ago
        It's not disingenuous framing, it's just an attempt to understand the motivations of the people writing the laws. What would be disingenuous would be comparing an App Store or an Authorized developer account to a web browser.
        deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
- aneutron 1y ago
  What this tells is the following: 1. You have absolutely no clue how the BitTorrent protocol works. 2. You have never maintained a widely used app as a single developer. 3. The extent of your use of LLMs is either academic / hobby or very narrowly focused and not integrated into a global product. Just these points make your "suggestion" about using "LLMs to detect stuff is extremely easy" laughable at best. The reason why people want to install their own software is to have freedom over their devices. The copyrighted content removal has a mechanism for it, called DMCA. And this is not how it works. The application does not have any content or means to circumvent any measures.
  - guywithahat 1y ago
    > Just these points make your "suggestion" about using "LLMs to detect stuff is extremely easy" laughable at best. I ran a company doing this for real time internet traffic and the tech worked great. My mistake was suggesting a specific solution; the reality is there is a dozens ways to go about it, and it doesn't matter to me how its solved. What does matter is the EU probably isn't going to work overtime to protect people illegally downloading music, and I don't fault Apple for wanting to limit how many people can do it
- qwytw 1y ago
  > would be happy to screen for copyrighted Are they legally required? Why would they then. Apple on the other hand... There is nothing about torrent apps in DMA.
  - guywithahat 1y ago
    Here's what I found after asking chatgpt: In the US, Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) of 1998, Section 512 In the EU, E-Commerce Directive (2000/31/EC), Copyright in the Digital Single Market Directive (2019/790/EU, “DSM Directive”), Digital Services Act (DSA). Additionally specific countries each have their own laws on the matter.
    - qwytw 1y ago
      Asking what? Why would the DMCA apply to an app store hosting torrent download apps? And that's not even the case there. Its like claiming Microsoft is somehow responsible for someone downloading a torrent app. Silly...
    - int_19h 1y ago
      DMCA would require something like a torrent tracker to respond to specific takedown requests in the prescribed manner. It has zero relevance to a torrent client.

Torrents are used legally all the time; it’s not always piracy.

by borski 1y ago

Torrents are used legally all the time; it’s not always piracy.

Then I'm sure the developer of the app would be happy to screen for copyrighted content or malware, and attempt to remove it. It wouldn't even be hard, they could just poke a lightweight LLM at it and have the llm make the call, and maybe add a submission field to report illegal content.

microtonal 1y ago
Why? Should ISPs start MITM traffic? Internet connections can be used for downloading illegal content after all.
- guywithahat 1y ago
  That’s what we’re preventing here. The agreement is ISP’s/infrastructure gets the clear, and applications need to regulate the content they host. If they stop regulating content, ISP’s will
  - akimbostrawman 1y ago
    That's nonsense using a disingenuous framing. Application like Browser have existed long before and after ISP DMCA exemptions, applications do not have any responsibility to enact laws on someone else's computer/property. Otherwise why not also remove safari since apple does not prevent copyright abuse there.
    - guywithahat 1y ago
      It's not disingenuous framing, it's just an attempt to understand the motivations of the people writing the laws. What would be disingenuous would be comparing an App Store or an Authorized developer account to a web browser.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
aneutron 1y ago
What this tells is the following: 1. You have absolutely no clue how the BitTorrent protocol works. 2. You have never maintained a widely used app as a single developer. 3. The extent of your use of LLMs is either academic / hobby or very narrowly focused and not integrated into a global product. Just these points make your "suggestion" about using "LLMs to detect stuff is extremely easy" laughable at best. The reason why people want to install their own software is to have freedom over their devices. The copyrighted content removal has a mechanism for it, called DMCA. And this is not how it works. The application does not have any content or means to circumvent any measures.
- guywithahat 1y ago
  > Just these points make your "suggestion" about using "LLMs to detect stuff is extremely easy" laughable at best. I ran a company doing this for real time internet traffic and the tech worked great. My mistake was suggesting a specific solution; the reality is there is a dozens ways to go about it, and it doesn't matter to me how its solved. What does matter is the EU probably isn't going to work overtime to protect people illegally downloading music, and I don't fault Apple for wanting to limit how many people can do it
qwytw 1y ago
> would be happy to screen for copyrighted Are they legally required? Why would they then. Apple on the other hand... There is nothing about torrent apps in DMA.
- guywithahat 1y ago
  Here's what I found after asking chatgpt: In the US, Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) of 1998, Section 512 In the EU, E-Commerce Directive (2000/31/EC), Copyright in the Digital Single Market Directive (2019/790/EU, “DSM Directive”), Digital Services Act (DSA). Additionally specific countries each have their own laws on the matter.
  - qwytw 1y ago
    Asking what? Why would the DMCA apply to an app store hosting torrent download apps? And that's not even the case there. Its like claiming Microsoft is somehow responsible for someone downloading a torrent app. Silly...
  - int_19h 1y ago
    DMCA would require something like a torrent tracker to respond to specific takedown requests in the prescribed manner. It has zero relevance to a torrent client.