4 ms·

> Conferences, announcements, etc all happened virtually and things were largely fine. Sure things like networking were lost (and the associated drinking), and

> Conferences, announcements, etc all happened virtually and things were largely fine. Sure things like networking were lost (and the associated drinking), and while that was valuable was not necessarily the marketed reason for the events. I haven't heard anyone say that things were fine. I and colleagues have participated virtually in ML conferences during covid and people almost unanimously said it was mostly useless. You can't compare zoom rooms to poster sessions, real social events with GatherTown etc. For papers you can just follow arXiv and configure alerts or browse the conference website. The networking and shared fun is core. People make friends/acquaintances, have discussions about how it is to live in another country, their job, their takes on events, gossip, and just general human exchange over beers etc. I know many of us here are introverts, but I'm still seeing it like this. It can be a bonding experience with colleagues to go to the same conference for a week, multiple times a year, you can become friends that will last long. Or it can be hell if you hate them. Two sides to the coin, I admit. There are many things that can't be said fully openly, e.g. that the main purpose of such conferences is social. Because fun can't be reimbursed, the cog in the machine must be productive and efficient and serious. Except if it's structured like daycare activities mediated by a primary school teacher, i.e. "team-building workshops", whose concept already makes my stomach turn. People can socialize much better if it's not some structured forced activity but happens naturally alongside some other (non-made-up) activity, such as going to a conference and listening to talks etc. Another thing is that you change your location and life a bit for a week (or a few days), shift your working style. If you stay in the same home or the same office and tune in virtually, most people just going to be multi-tasking. That's already the case for many meetings. People turn off their cameras, their mics, eventually even attendance dwindles. Then if you propose in-person events again, people are disinterested because they associate it with that low-engagement boring stuff, except they now also have to travel to it etc.

the_snooze 1y ago
In my experience, the in-person networking is absolutely the point. If you're a junior researcher, it's really valuable when your more senior collaborator introduces you to new people. Then that snowballs into more contacts. That can really only happen in a relaxed setting like the hallway or during lunch or over after-session drinks. If you try to do this virtually, you're just a random entity on a screen, not a real person. It's not about the exchange of words, but the reality of being around others that enables that kind of professional connection.
dangus 1y ago
The problem with all this is that you’ve only shown that socializing is fun, not that the amount of ROI you or the company is getting from events is positive. I’d rather have fun and socialize in ways that have nothing to do with work, and I think younger generations feel even more strongly about that. The way I see it is that corporate cultures have completely given up on investment in employees. No more tuition reimbursement, no more certification reimbursement, you’re a hired mercenary. They are telling employees straight to their face that they are replaceable temp workers who had better start using AI as much as possible or else they’ll get fired and be replaced with AI anyway. Why would I want to spend my time going to an industry conference when the industry treats me like shit? And on this note, how many companies are actually investing in sending employees to conferences? My company even gave up on any sort of team building budget to have my team meet in person, they’re not even willing to pay to have us meet in person once a year. Never mind paying for conference fees and sponsorships. Conferences that aren’t sales tools have no value to the modern corporation. From the article: > I’ve actually talked to folks who decided, “I’ve only got a few years left – I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing, the same way, at the same company, until they let me go or until I decide to quit.” LLMs like ChatGPT made it easier to get by without actually knowing what you’re doing – at least in the short term – and that’s all these kinds of people care about. This is what has been incentivized by companies. Again, they have told us to our face that we are throwaway employees who are not worth investment. We should just use AI and work faster, please. Where does socializing fit into that world view? Hell, employees who socialize do pesky things like unionize.
- bonoboTP 1y ago
  I think it's a broader social problem. People also socialize less in private as well. Atomization, mobile entertainment etc. > The way I see it is that corporate cultures have completely given up on investment in employees. No more tuition reimbursement, no more certification reimbursement, you’re a hired mercenary. They are telling employees straight to their face that they are replaceable temp workers who had better start using AI as much as possible or else they’ll get fired and be replaced with AI anyway. Chicken-or-egg of course, but employees also tend to job hop much more than before (again, understandable if they can't get a raise otherwise), making investment less rational for companies. It's a self-feeding cycle. People used to work for multiple decades in the same place before that. But probably some MBA books derived that this is bad, because they become too crucial and too unique, bus factor things, you need more fungible cogs than that. Even in friend groups people are flakier, romantic relationships are treated as more disposable etc. Of course all these have a flipside, they didn't happen without reason. A general shift away from a "high-trust society" model.

the_snooze 1y ago

In my experience, the in-person networking is absolutely the point. If you're a junior researcher, it's really valuable when your more senior collaborator introduces you to new people. Then that snowballs into more contacts. That can really only happen in a relaxed setting like the hallway or during lunch or over after-session drinks. If you try to do this virtually, you're just a random entity on a screen, not a real person. It's not about the exchange of words, but the reality of being around others that enables that kind of professional connection.

dangus 1y ago

The problem with all this is that you’ve only shown that socializing is fun, not that the amount of ROI you or the company is getting from events is positive. I’d rather have fun and socialize in ways that have nothing to do with work, and I think younger generations feel even more strongly about that. The way I see it is that corporate cultures have completely given up on investment in employees. No more tuition reimbursement, no more certification reimbursement, you’re a hired mercenary. They are telling employees straight to their face that they are replaceable temp workers who had better start using AI as much as possible or else they’ll get fired and be replaced with AI anyway. Why would I want to spend my time going to an industry conference when the industry treats me like shit? And on this note, how many companies are actually investing in sending employees to conferences? My company even gave up on any sort of team building budget to have my team meet in person, they’re not even willing to pay to have us meet in person once a year. Never mind paying for conference fees and sponsorships. Conferences that aren’t sales tools have no value to the modern corporation. From the article: > I’ve actually talked to folks who decided, “I’ve only got a few years left – I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing, the same way, at the same company, until they let me go or until I decide to quit.” LLMs like ChatGPT made it easier to get by without actually knowing what you’re doing – at least in the short term – and that’s all these kinds of people care about. This is what has been incentivized by companies. Again, they have told us to our face that we are throwaway employees who are not worth investment. We should just use AI and work faster, please. Where does socializing fit into that world view? Hell, employees who socialize do pesky things like unionize.

bonoboTP 1y ago
I think it's a broader social problem. People also socialize less in private as well. Atomization, mobile entertainment etc. > The way I see it is that corporate cultures have completely given up on investment in employees. No more tuition reimbursement, no more certification reimbursement, you’re a hired mercenary. They are telling employees straight to their face that they are replaceable temp workers who had better start using AI as much as possible or else they’ll get fired and be replaced with AI anyway. Chicken-or-egg of course, but employees also tend to job hop much more than before (again, understandable if they can't get a raise otherwise), making investment less rational for companies. It's a self-feeding cycle. People used to work for multiple decades in the same place before that. But probably some MBA books derived that this is bad, because they become too crucial and too unique, bus factor things, you need more fungible cogs than that. Even in friend groups people are flakier, romantic relationships are treated as more disposable etc. Of course all these have a flipside, they didn't happen without reason. A general shift away from a "high-trust society" model.