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> on my 2011 Mac Mini which Apple stopped allowing upgrades on past macOS 10.13 I know some people feel like Apple is aggressive in this respect, but that's an

> on my 2011 Mac Mini which Apple stopped allowing upgrades on past macOS 10.13 I know some people feel like Apple is aggressive in this respect, but that's an 8 year old version of a browser. That's like taking off all of the locks on your house, leaving the doors and windows open all while expecting your house to never have uninvited guests.

makeitdouble 1y ago
But Apple is also the one locking Safari to the OS, IE style. Having to buy a new machine to get the latest and secure version of a browser is a pretty heavy requirement.
- sipjca 1y ago
  i mean there are also lots of browser options to be fair. should they be locking safari to the OS, definitely not. but users can just go download another browser if they are actually concerned.
  - dylan604 1y ago
    Will modern versions of those other browsers still work on an 8 year old OS, or has it been updated where it is no longer compatible? So much effort has been put into hardware rendering, and the mechanisms for the browser to interact with that hardware has changed within those OS versions. Forcing the user to download an older compatible version of the browser to work with the older OS is also tossing away potential security fixes.
    - sipjca 1y ago
      i mean you're also throwing away security fixed running an OS that out of date, but the person doing this probably doesn't care about security anyway.
- w0m 1y ago
  or use a supported OS (linux, or hilariously probably Windows), or install a still-suppored browser (I'd guess Firefox likely still runs latest on there). I'd put it on the end user for not updating software on 15 y/o hardware and still expecting the outside world to interact cleanly.
  - makeitdouble 1y ago
    > hilariously probably Windows That's probably true. > 15 y/0 It's a matter of expectations, many laptops that old still work decently enough with a refreshed battery. Funnily enough win10 was released 15 ago, and one can still get support for it for at least another 3 years until 2028, even on the customer license.
    - Autummata 1y ago
      W10 was released 10 years ago, not 15. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history
      - makeitdouble 1y ago
        Sorry, I just have pattern matched the 2015 release year instead of properly counting.
forgotmypw17 1y ago
> That's like taking off all of the locks on your house, leaving the doors and windows open all while expecting your house to never have uninvited guests. Depending on where you live (or what websites you visit) it's not unreasonable.
- dwaite 1y ago
  Attacks via ad networks mean that is likely limited more than people would expect.
  - forgotmypw17 1y ago
    That's a good point. I assumed they use an effective ad blocker.

makeitdouble 1y ago

But Apple is also the one locking Safari to the OS, IE style. Having to buy a new machine to get the latest and secure version of a browser is a pretty heavy requirement.

sipjca 1y ago
i mean there are also lots of browser options to be fair. should they be locking safari to the OS, definitely not. but users can just go download another browser if they are actually concerned.
- dylan604 1y ago
  Will modern versions of those other browsers still work on an 8 year old OS, or has it been updated where it is no longer compatible? So much effort has been put into hardware rendering, and the mechanisms for the browser to interact with that hardware has changed within those OS versions. Forcing the user to download an older compatible version of the browser to work with the older OS is also tossing away potential security fixes.
  - sipjca 1y ago
    i mean you're also throwing away security fixed running an OS that out of date, but the person doing this probably doesn't care about security anyway.
w0m 1y ago
or use a supported OS (linux, or hilariously probably Windows), or install a still-suppored browser (I'd guess Firefox likely still runs latest on there). I'd put it on the end user for not updating software on 15 y/o hardware and still expecting the outside world to interact cleanly.
- makeitdouble 1y ago
  > hilariously probably Windows That's probably true. > 15 y/0 It's a matter of expectations, many laptops that old still work decently enough with a refreshed battery. Funnily enough win10 was released 15 ago, and one can still get support for it for at least another 3 years until 2028, even on the customer license.
  - Autummata 1y ago
    W10 was released 10 years ago, not 15. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_10_version_history
    - makeitdouble 1y ago
      Sorry, I just have pattern matched the 2015 release year instead of properly counting.

forgotmypw17 1y ago

> That's like taking off all of the locks on your house, leaving the doors and windows open all while expecting your house to never have uninvited guests. Depending on where you live (or what websites you visit) it's not unreasonable.

dwaite 1y ago
Attacks via ad networks mean that is likely limited more than people would expect.
- forgotmypw17 1y ago
  That's a good point. I assumed they use an effective ad blocker.