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exactly. I don't want to do a "no true scotsman" to defend React, but circumstantial evidence suggests that they wildly misused the tool

by agos 1y ago

throw-the-towel 1y ago
A tool that lends itself to misuse so easily is a bad tool, period.
- agos 1y ago
  why do you say "easily"? it took them considerable effort to make that atrocity, I'm pretty sure. The fact that tens of people worked on this and yet this is the result is way more telling of the team and company culture than it is of the specific tool.
- sgarland 1y ago
  Not necessarily. Sharp tools are often sharp because someone needs it. I’m not a frontend dev, and have next to zero experience with anything beyond jQuery, but an analogy is shell. Bash (and zsh, though I find some of its syntactic sugar nicer, albeit still inscrutable) will happily let you do extremely stupid things, but it also lets you do extremely complicated things in a very concise manner. That doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad, it means you need to know what the hell you’re doing, and use linters, write tests, etc.
xcrunner529 1y ago
So PHP <6 was a great language?
- zerocharge 1y ago
  The front-end is usually just a thin layer on top of a database, sometimes with backend services (queues/processing). Having a bad language on the front-end actually helped. You don't want to write code because of the bad language, you write less code, less code is less bugs. You had to be invested to increase the lines of code. It's like the hard chair of programming languages. If you don't want programmers to dwell there, bring the hard chairs.
  - guappa 1y ago
    Have you not seen the internet these past decades?
    - zerocharge 1y ago
      It's meant in a tongue in cheek way. Day to day I develop in C# and Typescript/React using all the latest bells and whistles. Long for the simpler times though. The time before product managers, Scrum and ticket driven development. All the tickets drive the complexity that maybe shouldn't exist. Hard to push back against feature requests when it's a one-way street.

exactly. I don't want to do a "no true scotsman" to defend React, but circumstantial evidence suggests that they wildly misused the tool

by agos 1y ago

exactly. I don't want to do a "no true scotsman" to defend React, but circumstantial evidence suggests that they wildly misused the tool

throw-the-towel 1y ago

A tool that lends itself to misuse so easily is a bad tool, period.

agos 1y ago
why do you say "easily"? it took them considerable effort to make that atrocity, I'm pretty sure. The fact that tens of people worked on this and yet this is the result is way more telling of the team and company culture than it is of the specific tool.
sgarland 1y ago
Not necessarily. Sharp tools are often sharp because someone needs it. I’m not a frontend dev, and have next to zero experience with anything beyond jQuery, but an analogy is shell. Bash (and zsh, though I find some of its syntactic sugar nicer, albeit still inscrutable) will happily let you do extremely stupid things, but it also lets you do extremely complicated things in a very concise manner. That doesn’t mean it’s inherently bad, it means you need to know what the hell you’re doing, and use linters, write tests, etc.

xcrunner529 1y ago

So PHP <6 was a great language?

zerocharge 1y ago
The front-end is usually just a thin layer on top of a database, sometimes with backend services (queues/processing). Having a bad language on the front-end actually helped. You don't want to write code because of the bad language, you write less code, less code is less bugs. You had to be invested to increase the lines of code. It's like the hard chair of programming languages. If you don't want programmers to dwell there, bring the hard chairs.
- guappa 1y ago
  Have you not seen the internet these past decades?
  - zerocharge 1y ago
    It's meant in a tongue in cheek way. Day to day I develop in C# and Typescript/React using all the latest bells and whistles. Long for the simpler times though. The time before product managers, Scrum and ticket driven development. All the tickets drive the complexity that maybe shouldn't exist. Hard to push back against feature requests when it's a one-way street.