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Yes, I've heard this time and time again. It has nothing to do with the point I'm making. This is just stoking the flamewar. If you want to compare Waymo and T

Yes, I've heard this time and time again. It has nothing to do with the point I'm making. This is just stoking the flamewar. If you want to compare Waymo and Tesla FSD from a technology standpoint and claim superiority of one over the other you can't use simple values like interventions per mile. It says very little. The solutions were designed for different purposes under different constraints. That's what engineers do. If Waymo was attempting to make consumer viable self driving vehicles they would have made very different decisions and likewise for Tesla if their only goal was taxi. That should be obvious to any technologist.

hobs 1y ago
You started with "Why is anyone..." and you got your answer - the founder and promoter of the technology has been on record lying about it multiple times. There's lawsuits about it. Steelmanning Tesla's position makes no sense here.
- goosejuice 1y ago
  I did not get a rational answer. If you're building a cheap mass market self driving vehicle that has to work everywhere you'll make completely different design decisions than a geo restricted taxi. Would you care to acknowledge that simple fact? The amount of hypotheticals you'd have to go through to compare these technologies in superiority up to this point is extensive. Go ahead, do the thought experiment. It would be a lot more interesting than a blanket interventions per mile with zero context. Otherwise it's a false equivalence dog pile in search of Internet points. We don't need repeating of exhaustingly well known qualities of Tesla's CEO. That's not interesting, the Internet is already overrun with that.
  - hobs 1y ago
    I can acknowledge many facts, but since you seem to dodge that really big one I don't think we can have a productive discussion here. Talking about rationality in that context of what appears to be motivated thinking is ... interesting.
    - goosejuice 1y ago
      Do you think that you're sharing new information? That arguably the most hated man in America has consistently over promised and under delivered? It would be a little difficult to miss that over the last ten years. I find it rather sad that the work of so many talented engineers is simply dismissed because they'd rather talk about that clown. You'd think HN could at least separate the two. There's a whole lot of people here working for a billionaire shit head.
      - breve 1y ago
        The work of many talented engineers at Tesla is dismissed by Musk: https://archive.md/QJQ3r https://archive.md/QJQ3r Some engineers have become so corrupted by the culture of lying of Tesla that they're willing to lie about things that there's no need to lie about, like quarter mile times of the Cybertruck: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs-porsche-911-carrera-t-drag-race-towing-rematch https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE The lead engineer on the Cybertruck sadly tried to defend the lie, while admitting that they never even ran that quarter mile: https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551 https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551
        goosejuice 1y ago
        And yet you and many others can't step back from the controversy for one second and discuss the engineering. Every single discussion around autonomous vehicles is poisoned by it.
        breve 1y ago
        The engineering is compromised by Tesla's culture of lying: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45062614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45062614 Tesla engineers will be best off moving to another company.
unaindz 1y ago
By definition if you aim to get autonomous that means you aim for zero or at least a very low intervention per mile. Tesla boast about that but doesn't provide.
- goosejuice 1y ago
  The context clearly matters.

hobs 1y ago

You started with "Why is anyone..." and you got your answer - the founder and promoter of the technology has been on record lying about it multiple times. There's lawsuits about it. Steelmanning Tesla's position makes no sense here.

goosejuice 1y ago
I did not get a rational answer. If you're building a cheap mass market self driving vehicle that has to work everywhere you'll make completely different design decisions than a geo restricted taxi. Would you care to acknowledge that simple fact? The amount of hypotheticals you'd have to go through to compare these technologies in superiority up to this point is extensive. Go ahead, do the thought experiment. It would be a lot more interesting than a blanket interventions per mile with zero context. Otherwise it's a false equivalence dog pile in search of Internet points. We don't need repeating of exhaustingly well known qualities of Tesla's CEO. That's not interesting, the Internet is already overrun with that.
- hobs 1y ago
  I can acknowledge many facts, but since you seem to dodge that really big one I don't think we can have a productive discussion here. Talking about rationality in that context of what appears to be motivated thinking is ... interesting.
  - goosejuice 1y ago
    Do you think that you're sharing new information? That arguably the most hated man in America has consistently over promised and under delivered? It would be a little difficult to miss that over the last ten years. I find it rather sad that the work of so many talented engineers is simply dismissed because they'd rather talk about that clown. You'd think HN could at least separate the two. There's a whole lot of people here working for a billionaire shit head.
    - breve 1y ago
      The work of many talented engineers at Tesla is dismissed by Musk: https://archive.md/QJQ3r https://archive.md/QJQ3r Some engineers have become so corrupted by the culture of lying of Tesla that they're willing to lie about things that there's no need to lie about, like quarter mile times of the Cybertruck: https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs-porsche-911-carrera-t-drag-race-towing-rematch https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/tesla-cybertruck-beast-vs... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J3H8--CQRE The lead engineer on the Cybertruck sadly tried to defend the lie, while admitting that they never even ran that quarter mile: https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551 https://x.com/wmorrill3/status/1746266437088645551
      - goosejuice 1y ago
        And yet you and many others can't step back from the controversy for one second and discuss the engineering. Every single discussion around autonomous vehicles is poisoned by it.
        breve 1y ago
        The engineering is compromised by Tesla's culture of lying: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45062614 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45062614 Tesla engineers will be best off moving to another company.

unaindz 1y ago

By definition if you aim to get autonomous that means you aim for zero or at least a very low intervention per mile. Tesla boast about that but doesn't provide.

goosejuice 1y ago
The context clearly matters.