3 ms·

You're not providing examples of any actual restrictions that can be put on a warrant. Is the judge going to give the officers byte offsets to look at on a bloc

You're not providing examples of any actual restrictions that can be put on a warrant. Is the judge going to give the officers byte offsets to look at on a block device?

lovich 1y ago
The warrant is literally removing restrictions from the police. I don’t know why I would need any examples for someone to be able to understand why that would mechanically mean that the warrant could be written in a way that is not carte Blanche for the police.
Ukv 1y ago
Something like "call logs and text messages sent between 22nd and 26th of August" would be common, to my understanding.
- sidewndr46 1y ago
  Well that's a funny thing, because what is a text message? Does it include RCS? Does it include WhatsApp? What about Telegram? I made a text file and emailed it to my boss a few weeks back, is that a "text" ?
  - Ukv 1y ago
    That there are fuzzy boundaries is not a blocker for a field that is largely built on drawing lines on fuzzy boundaries - a judge can make the determination if necessary. My answer would be: yes "text messages" includes RCS as well as SMS, but not whatsapp/telegram/an email attachment, and that the warrant should've been more specific if it wanted the latter - but ask your lawyer if you're uncertain what's being requested.
  - kstrauser 1y ago
    In my albeit limited experience around lawyers and the legal system in general, judges are not amused by clever wordplay. Sometimes they'll entertain specific challenges to specific wordings, but in general the plain, obvious definition of something is the one they'll go with. A text message is something in Messages.app or the Google equivalent. It may include a message in Signal or WhatsApp, but I suspect they'd want to see some case precedence supporting that. It almost certainly isn't a screenshot in their photos app, or a message written in text in the notes app, or Aretha Franklin spelling out R-E-S-P-E-C-T in the music app. It's a message in the phone's commonly used messaging app. Anything much beyond that is likely to earn a scolding from an unimpressed judge.
  - chowells 1y ago
    The law is not computer code, and this is a feature. Playing word games does not get you out of your legal responsibilities. Was it a text communication in the specified time frame? Then it really doesn't matter what protocol and encodings were used.
maxerickson 1y ago
It doesn't restrict their eyes, it restricts their use of the information.

You're not providing examples of any actual restrictions that can be put on a warrant. Is the judge going to give the officers byte offsets to look at on a block device?

lovich 1y ago

The warrant is literally removing restrictions from the police. I don’t know why I would need any examples for someone to be able to understand why that would mechanically mean that the warrant could be written in a way that is not carte Blanche for the police.

Ukv 1y ago

Something like "call logs and text messages sent between 22nd and 26th of August" would be common, to my understanding.

sidewndr46 1y ago
Well that's a funny thing, because what is a text message? Does it include RCS? Does it include WhatsApp? What about Telegram? I made a text file and emailed it to my boss a few weeks back, is that a "text" ?
- Ukv 1y ago
  That there are fuzzy boundaries is not a blocker for a field that is largely built on drawing lines on fuzzy boundaries - a judge can make the determination if necessary. My answer would be: yes "text messages" includes RCS as well as SMS, but not whatsapp/telegram/an email attachment, and that the warrant should've been more specific if it wanted the latter - but ask your lawyer if you're uncertain what's being requested.
- kstrauser 1y ago
  In my albeit limited experience around lawyers and the legal system in general, judges are not amused by clever wordplay. Sometimes they'll entertain specific challenges to specific wordings, but in general the plain, obvious definition of something is the one they'll go with. A text message is something in Messages.app or the Google equivalent. It may include a message in Signal or WhatsApp, but I suspect they'd want to see some case precedence supporting that. It almost certainly isn't a screenshot in their photos app, or a message written in text in the notes app, or Aretha Franklin spelling out R-E-S-P-E-C-T in the music app. It's a message in the phone's commonly used messaging app. Anything much beyond that is likely to earn a scolding from an unimpressed judge.
- chowells 1y ago
  The law is not computer code, and this is a feature. Playing word games does not get you out of your legal responsibilities. Was it a text communication in the specified time frame? Then it really doesn't matter what protocol and encodings were used.

maxerickson 1y ago

It doesn't restrict their eyes, it restricts their use of the information.