4 ms·

Not trying to be snarky, but doesn't this mental model effectively allow you to ignore any/all things otherwise intelligent people have to say, simply because y

Not trying to be snarky, but doesn't this mental model effectively allow you to ignore any/all things otherwise intelligent people have to say, simply because you disagree? If I met Einstein, and he had opinions about how to cook chicken that differed from mine, I wouldn't leap to "he's a complete moron in the kitchen!", i'd be inclined to really attempt to understand the difference of opinion. I'm not disagreeing that intelligence can be domain specific, but I'd be careful going to far with this. It is _not_ obviously the case that "anyone who can think critically leans towards the Democratic party", and putting that forward seems like an exceptionally dangerous bubble to build.

marknutter 1y ago
"anyone who can think critically leans towards the Democratic party" isn't something anyone who's actually intelligent would ever say.
- homefree 1y ago
  It's exactly what a partisan reddit midwit would say and they're overrepresented when it comes to Elon Musk hatred. There used to be less of that on HN, my theory is younger accounts that are more politically extreme/lefty are now here as the younger generation graduates school and posts more on HN. There's some historical irony too since communism came out of highly educated academic elites and is responsible for an enormous amount of death and value destruction. Ideological driven academics that think they're better than everyone are particularly good at crafting insane ideologies someone outside of that insular community would not, then leveraging institutional and cultural power to force it on everyone else. The woke and gender ideologies share similar origins, same for DEI. It's a political and ideological monoculture and it's a dangerous mixture of incredibly confidently smug and wrong. Worth picking up Peter Thiel's first book which goes into this in some detail (he wrote it pretty young, observing the early start of this when he was at Stanford). It's wildly prescient and was from the mid 90s iirc.
  - ggm 1y ago
    Do you think Pew research is a democrat shill body? https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideo... I'm very midwitted. 50% of the planet is below the mean after all..
    - homefree 1y ago
      What is "education"? Is it degrees? There are a lot of problems with this. It's hardly a sign that someone "thinks critically". A lot mediocre students I knew in school stayed on to do more school because they were not able to do something else. A lot of degrees and classes are frankly bullshit and this problem has gotten worse since the 60s - the details matter. Time wasted studying pseudo-intellectual nonsense doesn't imply someone has a better understanding of the world than someone else (often the opposite) - just that they wasted time getting indoctrinated in a particular culture (often subsidized by others if not the taxpayer). What about the people doing interesting and useful things in society, building stuff, creating wealth - what these people think matters a lot more than someone that got a PHD on olfactory ethics. Not all education is equal. Even then, the meta analysis matters less than the details of the actual underlying argument. Appeal to authority and experts is a poor substitute for rigorous good faith debate of the actual issues. There's a reason William F. Buckley said he would rather be governed by the first 2,000 people listed in the phone book than by the faculty members from Harvard. "I am obliged to confess that I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University. Not, heaven knows, because I hold lightly the brainpower or knowledge or generosity or even the affability of the Harvard faculty: but because I greatly fear intellectual arrogance, and that is a distinguishing characteristic of the university which refuses to accept any common premise." So it's not that I dispute the data that there's a lefty bias in universities (there obviously is), I dispute what that actually means.
      - ggm 1y ago
        > So it's not that I dispute the data that there's a lefty bias in universities (there obviously is), I dispute what that actually means. The issue at hand isn't perceived bias in universities, it's voting tendencies of people who have higher education. PS, this conversation is a waste of both of our times. I won't be continuing it. Because there is no good faith either side. I'm certainly not going to display any and I aver you aren't either, but you can judge for yourself.
- michaelmrose 1y ago
  It is. The opposition is getting ready to crater the economy whilst building concentration camps to be filled by the klan army he's putting together whilst gutting both our constitutional protections and ability to remove what ammounts to a senile version of Hitler. They are doing so much damage to institutions and ultimately to people that their loss in 2028 will be damned near inevitable leaving them no course of action to stay out of prison other tha what they have already outlined which is to end democracy. There is no substantial opposition from the Republicans singly or in groups. They are barely willing to verbally chastise him and none dare vote in a meaningful way that would impact his plans. They were barely willing to admit he wasn't pres in 2021 when he was nothing.
- ActorNightly 1y ago
  Yes because it makes perfect sense to vote for convicted felon, most likely a child molester, who tried to coup the government when he lost in 2025, with Project 2025 behind his back. That act alone pretty much disqualifies you from being able to talk about intelligence in the first place.
  - natch 1y ago
    Four false turds packaged up in haughty fake outrage does not mean you have given us a golden truth. The democrats chose an unimaginably bad candidate and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
    - ActorNightly 1y ago
      Ah yes, the whole lawsuit where Trumps legal team argued that he in fact did submit a slate of fraudlent electors, but argued that he had the right to do so because he was immune from legal prosecution, is totally false, despite being all documented in publicly available court proceedings. Also this https://www.project2025.observer/en https://www.project2025.observer/en So please understand that when you claim that these things are false, it is absolutely ok for people to assume you are mentally ill. Because you chose to live in a world inside your head instead of actual reality.
      - natch 1y ago
        That’s fine if you assume that! I definitely am not 100% perfect. Thanks for the link I’ll take a look.
ActorNightly 1y ago
I already answered this If you are a person who has shown traits of very low intelligence, any fact you state has to have concrete evidence, especially if its something that is not easily verifiable. Meanwhile people who have generally shown themselves to be more intelligent can generally be trusted more from the start. >t is _not_ obviously the case that "anyone who can think critically leans towards the Democratic party" Yes it is. Conservatism comes from not being able to comprehend reality around you correctly. Anything rational in the conservative movement (like sensible gun rights) is already a part of modern liberal Democrats, while the rest of the stuff is just objectively and verifiably wrong. And just for clarity, its not my side versus your side. The far left movements that lean towards hard socialism and abandonment of private property are also verifiably wrong. This is part of horseshoe effect in politics.
- SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
  > Yes it is. Conservatism comes from not being able to comprehend reality around you ffs, go talk to a real conservative sometime. If you lived their life, you would be them.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]

marknutter 1y ago

"anyone who can think critically leans towards the Democratic party" isn't something anyone who's actually intelligent would ever say.

homefree 1y ago
It's exactly what a partisan reddit midwit would say and they're overrepresented when it comes to Elon Musk hatred. There used to be less of that on HN, my theory is younger accounts that are more politically extreme/lefty are now here as the younger generation graduates school and posts more on HN. There's some historical irony too since communism came out of highly educated academic elites and is responsible for an enormous amount of death and value destruction. Ideological driven academics that think they're better than everyone are particularly good at crafting insane ideologies someone outside of that insular community would not, then leveraging institutional and cultural power to force it on everyone else. The woke and gender ideologies share similar origins, same for DEI. It's a political and ideological monoculture and it's a dangerous mixture of incredibly confidently smug and wrong. Worth picking up Peter Thiel's first book which goes into this in some detail (he wrote it pretty young, observing the early start of this when he was at Stanford). It's wildly prescient and was from the mid 90s iirc.
- ggm 1y ago
  Do you think Pew research is a democrat shill body? https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideological-gap-between-more-and-less-educated-adults/ https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2016/04/26/a-wider-ideo... I'm very midwitted. 50% of the planet is below the mean after all..
  - homefree 1y ago
    What is "education"? Is it degrees? There are a lot of problems with this. It's hardly a sign that someone "thinks critically". A lot mediocre students I knew in school stayed on to do more school because they were not able to do something else. A lot of degrees and classes are frankly bullshit and this problem has gotten worse since the 60s - the details matter. Time wasted studying pseudo-intellectual nonsense doesn't imply someone has a better understanding of the world than someone else (often the opposite) - just that they wasted time getting indoctrinated in a particular culture (often subsidized by others if not the taxpayer). What about the people doing interesting and useful things in society, building stuff, creating wealth - what these people think matters a lot more than someone that got a PHD on olfactory ethics. Not all education is equal. Even then, the meta analysis matters less than the details of the actual underlying argument. Appeal to authority and experts is a poor substitute for rigorous good faith debate of the actual issues. There's a reason William F. Buckley said he would rather be governed by the first 2,000 people listed in the phone book than by the faculty members from Harvard. "I am obliged to confess that I should sooner live in a society governed by the first two thousand names in the Boston telephone directory than in a society governed by the two thousand faculty members of Harvard University. Not, heaven knows, because I hold lightly the brainpower or knowledge or generosity or even the affability of the Harvard faculty: but because I greatly fear intellectual arrogance, and that is a distinguishing characteristic of the university which refuses to accept any common premise." So it's not that I dispute the data that there's a lefty bias in universities (there obviously is), I dispute what that actually means.
    - ggm 1y ago
      > So it's not that I dispute the data that there's a lefty bias in universities (there obviously is), I dispute what that actually means. The issue at hand isn't perceived bias in universities, it's voting tendencies of people who have higher education. PS, this conversation is a waste of both of our times. I won't be continuing it. Because there is no good faith either side. I'm certainly not going to display any and I aver you aren't either, but you can judge for yourself.
michaelmrose 1y ago
It is. The opposition is getting ready to crater the economy whilst building concentration camps to be filled by the klan army he's putting together whilst gutting both our constitutional protections and ability to remove what ammounts to a senile version of Hitler. They are doing so much damage to institutions and ultimately to people that their loss in 2028 will be damned near inevitable leaving them no course of action to stay out of prison other tha what they have already outlined which is to end democracy. There is no substantial opposition from the Republicans singly or in groups. They are barely willing to verbally chastise him and none dare vote in a meaningful way that would impact his plans. They were barely willing to admit he wasn't pres in 2021 when he was nothing.
ActorNightly 1y ago
Yes because it makes perfect sense to vote for convicted felon, most likely a child molester, who tried to coup the government when he lost in 2025, with Project 2025 behind his back. That act alone pretty much disqualifies you from being able to talk about intelligence in the first place.
- natch 1y ago
  Four false turds packaged up in haughty fake outrage does not mean you have given us a golden truth. The democrats chose an unimaginably bad candidate and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.
  - ActorNightly 1y ago
    Ah yes, the whole lawsuit where Trumps legal team argued that he in fact did submit a slate of fraudlent electors, but argued that he had the right to do so because he was immune from legal prosecution, is totally false, despite being all documented in publicly available court proceedings. Also this https://www.project2025.observer/en https://www.project2025.observer/en So please understand that when you claim that these things are false, it is absolutely ok for people to assume you are mentally ill. Because you chose to live in a world inside your head instead of actual reality.
    - natch 1y ago
      That’s fine if you assume that! I definitely am not 100% perfect. Thanks for the link I’ll take a look.

ActorNightly 1y ago

I already answered this If you are a person who has shown traits of very low intelligence, any fact you state has to have concrete evidence, especially if its something that is not easily verifiable. Meanwhile people who have generally shown themselves to be more intelligent can generally be trusted more from the start. >t is _not_ obviously the case that "anyone who can think critically leans towards the Democratic party" Yes it is. Conservatism comes from not being able to comprehend reality around you correctly. Anything rational in the conservative movement (like sensible gun rights) is already a part of modern liberal Democrats, while the rest of the stuff is just objectively and verifiably wrong. And just for clarity, its not my side versus your side. The far left movements that lean towards hard socialism and abandonment of private property are also verifiably wrong. This is part of horseshoe effect in politics.

SV_BubbleTime 1y ago
> Yes it is. Conservatism comes from not being able to comprehend reality around you ffs, go talk to a real conservative sometime. If you lived their life, you would be them.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]