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And what will you get by making a crappy product artificially competitive? Its the same inferior product still, except you artificially forced the better stuff

And what will you get by making a crappy product artificially competitive? Its the same inferior product still, except you artificially forced the better stuff to be more expensive. Its absolutely hilarious seeing USA adopt policies of communist countries of the Latin America. Wrong, as I said just ask countries like Brazil what happens when you tariff everything to shit and beyond. Brazil doesn't have chip fabs still and still has to pay a huge amount for phones and computers. The answer to local industry being shit isn't to coddle it further, it is to scare the living shit out of them. Clearly in-country competition isn't enough, otherwise it'd already have been better than foreign goods. That's how capitalism succeeds, coddling them will only lead to overall crappy product and crappy life everywhere. I find it quite amusing this anti China rhetoric suddenly jumped up after in some areas Chinese getting superior to Americans. Hilarious really how much of a sore loser America is. Enjoy and suffer shit goods at shittier prices. The tradeoff is you get fucked in both, in any countries that do tariffs. If one of the goals was to make life better for the lower classes, what will happen is that it won't, they'd be fucked even more being forced to pay more for the same stuff.

ericmay 1y ago
> And what will you get by making a crappy product artificially competitive? I disagree with this characterization on at least two points: The first is that you're assuming the product is crappy. Maybe it's actually quite good but just slightly more expensive for whatever reason, maybe that's unionization or something. Many people may opt to pay $6 less for a cheaper "thing" because they're not thinking about quality or wages or other factors. I know plenty of people who opt for buy-and-replace strategies because of "cheaper" products. Second you're assuming that the cheap product isn't also artificially competitive. Other countries subsidize manufacturing or have lower wages or have other factors that lead to the product being cheaper than it should be. > Its absolutely hilarious seeing USA adopt policies of communist countries of the Latin America. I'm not sure protectionist policies are inherently communist, but to the extent they are I expect leftists to cheer these policies on. > Enjoy and suffer shit goods at shittier prices. Sounds good - stop bothering us about our crappy decisions then?
- donkeybeer 1y ago
  >Other countries subsidize manufacturing or have lower wages or have other factors that lead to the product being cheaper than it should be. Then do the same for Americans. Make better product, don't force people to buy crappier. Its not just about the buyer choosing a quality-price tradeoff. Let us be honest, the USA (or any other country) isn't the best in every sector. Artificial tariffs just mean your people will have to buy worse product. Again, its a slide to Latam style communism, absolutely hilarious. I will even agree that a careful and targeted application of tariffs can help grow certain industries and can be a beneficial thing, but again careful and targeted is key, its a teat that they should be removed from in time. But what Trump is doing isn't remotely targeted or thought out. The fact that you somehow are pegging me as a leftist and reacting emotionally to simple statements of fact show how incredibly stupid people who love tariffs are. Absolute comedy. Tariffs are essentially a signal you are a loser, you can't do better so you force barriers on others. And I will maintain this for all countries that do it, whether its USA, Brazil or China. You are not showing strength by tariffs you are showing how weak you are. If I were thinking of investing in a weakening country, I might think otherwise now.
  - trimethylpurine 1y ago
    >You are not showing strength by tariffs you are showing how weak you are. Why does that matter?
    - donkeybeer 1y ago
      Signals are important to pay attention to. Its not a nice thing to be weak as a country. It's alright if you think you need this or that tariff right now to prop up this or that key industry, but what happens over time if you continuously slide ever weaker. Its just a warning sign that must be paid heed to. A strong sector shouldn't need a tariff to survive. For better or worse your IT/tech sector is one of the good examples of a strong sector, to extent that other countries are trying to shield themselves from it's success. That should be the aspiration for the industry, not living under tariffs forever.

ericmay 1y ago

> And what will you get by making a crappy product artificially competitive? I disagree with this characterization on at least two points: The first is that you're assuming the product is crappy. Maybe it's actually quite good but just slightly more expensive for whatever reason, maybe that's unionization or something. Many people may opt to pay $6 less for a cheaper "thing" because they're not thinking about quality or wages or other factors. I know plenty of people who opt for buy-and-replace strategies because of "cheaper" products. Second you're assuming that the cheap product isn't also artificially competitive. Other countries subsidize manufacturing or have lower wages or have other factors that lead to the product being cheaper than it should be. > Its absolutely hilarious seeing USA adopt policies of communist countries of the Latin America. I'm not sure protectionist policies are inherently communist, but to the extent they are I expect leftists to cheer these policies on. > Enjoy and suffer shit goods at shittier prices. Sounds good - stop bothering us about our crappy decisions then?

donkeybeer 1y ago
>Other countries subsidize manufacturing or have lower wages or have other factors that lead to the product being cheaper than it should be. Then do the same for Americans. Make better product, don't force people to buy crappier. Its not just about the buyer choosing a quality-price tradeoff. Let us be honest, the USA (or any other country) isn't the best in every sector. Artificial tariffs just mean your people will have to buy worse product. Again, its a slide to Latam style communism, absolutely hilarious. I will even agree that a careful and targeted application of tariffs can help grow certain industries and can be a beneficial thing, but again careful and targeted is key, its a teat that they should be removed from in time. But what Trump is doing isn't remotely targeted or thought out. The fact that you somehow are pegging me as a leftist and reacting emotionally to simple statements of fact show how incredibly stupid people who love tariffs are. Absolute comedy. Tariffs are essentially a signal you are a loser, you can't do better so you force barriers on others. And I will maintain this for all countries that do it, whether its USA, Brazil or China. You are not showing strength by tariffs you are showing how weak you are. If I were thinking of investing in a weakening country, I might think otherwise now.
- trimethylpurine 1y ago
  >You are not showing strength by tariffs you are showing how weak you are. Why does that matter?
  - donkeybeer 1y ago
    Signals are important to pay attention to. Its not a nice thing to be weak as a country. It's alright if you think you need this or that tariff right now to prop up this or that key industry, but what happens over time if you continuously slide ever weaker. Its just a warning sign that must be paid heed to. A strong sector shouldn't need a tariff to survive. For better or worse your IT/tech sector is one of the good examples of a strong sector, to extent that other countries are trying to shield themselves from it's success. That should be the aspiration for the industry, not living under tariffs forever.