3 ms·

I have a 1st gen Framework 13, Intel 11th gen CPU, running Ubuntu 24. It had a faulty design around the BIOS battery on the motherboard that I had to fix, and d

I have a 1st gen Framework 13, Intel 11th gen CPU, running Ubuntu 24. It had a faulty design around the BIOS battery on the motherboard that I had to fix, and do some soldering on[1]. It's remarkable because they didn't say "Send the laptop in and we'll fix the design defect" they said, "First take a photo of the inside of the laptop to verify the serial number, then place an order, then do the repair yourself." This left a very bad taste in my mouth. Additionally, and non-trivially, the laptop's battery life is not good, and it drains very quickly on suspend. I have taken to leaving it plugged in when not in use. This may be a Linux issue, but still. I agree with you: the idea is a good one, but my experience with the company has been not good. 1 - https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+11th+Gen+Intel%C2%AE+Core%E2%84%A2/203 https://guides.frame.work/Guide/RTC+Battery+Substitution+on+...

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
kibwen 1y ago
> then do the repair yourself This is awesome though, and exactly the sort of thing one buys a Framework for. > the laptop's battery life is not good Mine is great, I share a single USB-C cord among all my laptops (of which I have despairingly too many) and I often use my Framework all day while forgetting it's not plugged in. (Fedora, if the OS matters.)
- bevr1337 1y ago
  I'm going to assume soldering on the main board is far outside the ability of most users. They're not through hole, big green boards like I learned on. It is certainly awesome for those that can, of course!
  - simpaticoder 1y ago
    It does not make sense to praise a company for selling defective products because some of the customers have the ability to repair the defect.
    - yellowapple 1y ago
      It's a massive step up from the status quo of companies selling defective products without customers having the ability to repair the defect.
      - simpaticoder 1y ago
        Well then, you live in the best of worlds because every laptop is repairable even at the chip level or individual capacitor/resistor/connector level. All you need is a workshop, a multimeter, oscilloscope, probes, a hot air gun, a microscope, a variety of soldering tools, a variety of solder, solder mask, access to schematics and donor boards, and a lifetime of experience. Here's a guy who repairs Dell laptops all day every day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsP1--ttQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsP1--ttQc
        yellowapple 1y ago
        That's all a massive step beyond "order a free part from the vendor with instructions on how to solder it on yourself".
- simpaticoder 1y ago
  >This is awesome though No, it's not awesome. Upgrading ram and disk or replacing a motherboard, screen or battery is great. Repairing a badly designed motherboard with a soldering iron is not great. In fact, it's bad. I think there's a good argument that it violates (warranty) law. If a car company sells to you based on "right to repair" and then it turns out there was a design defect in the engine, is it "awesome" if they tell you you need to pull the engine and rebuild it? Glad your battery life is good. I notice you didn't mention it losing power when suspended. Curious.
  - akho 1y ago
    > I notice you didn't mention it losing power when suspended. Curious. Are you using a kernel > 6.8? It got (much) better.
    - simpaticoder 1y ago
      Interesting. I'm not normally in the habit of upgrading the kernel independently of the distribution, but it's worth trying. Thanks for the tip.
      - akho 1y ago
        On earlier kernels, `acpi_osi="!Windows 2020"` was often recommended. Though I'm note sure what it does. `nvme.noacpi=1` should be on, too, for all kernels. (all derived from the nixos-hardware repo; I use that)
        simpaticoder 1y ago
        Thanks. I upgraded the kernel (had to turn off secure boot to do it), and set the nvme kernel option, too. So far no unwanted side-effects, but it's too soon to say if it fixed the problem.
pcdoodle 1y ago
You won't believe it but I can pull 30 hours at min brightness sitting at the windows desktop on the 11th gen 13 framework (Running Win10LTSC).
starkparker 1y ago
> Additionally, and non-trivially, the laptop's battery life is not good, and it drains very quickly on suspend Drain on suspend in particular has largely been resolved on newer mainboards, firmware, and kernel updates, though I don't have an 11th-gen Intel and haven't run Ubuntu for a long time. Kernel updates fixed this on my 12th-gen, firmware updates fixed it on my 7040, and my Ultra 7 155H never experienced this issue.
- simpaticoder 1y ago
  I'd happily accept a replacement motherboard. They aren't offering that though ,but I'd be impressed if they did.
- olejorgenb 1y ago
  Which kernel upgrade? I have a dell precision with 12th Generation Intel i5-12500H, and it can't suspend properly. The suspend is even flaky and fails to suspend at all half the time. I run fedora with a very new kernel. It has a Nvidia GPU though. But then again - it is "Ubuntu certified"...

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

kibwen 1y ago

> then do the repair yourself This is awesome though, and exactly the sort of thing one buys a Framework for. > the laptop's battery life is not good Mine is great, I share a single USB-C cord among all my laptops (of which I have despairingly too many) and I often use my Framework all day while forgetting it's not plugged in. (Fedora, if the OS matters.)

bevr1337 1y ago
I'm going to assume soldering on the main board is far outside the ability of most users. They're not through hole, big green boards like I learned on. It is certainly awesome for those that can, of course!
- simpaticoder 1y ago
  It does not make sense to praise a company for selling defective products because some of the customers have the ability to repair the defect.
  - yellowapple 1y ago
    It's a massive step up from the status quo of companies selling defective products without customers having the ability to repair the defect.
    - simpaticoder 1y ago
      Well then, you live in the best of worlds because every laptop is repairable even at the chip level or individual capacitor/resistor/connector level. All you need is a workshop, a multimeter, oscilloscope, probes, a hot air gun, a microscope, a variety of soldering tools, a variety of solder, solder mask, access to schematics and donor boards, and a lifetime of experience. Here's a guy who repairs Dell laptops all day every day: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsP1--ttQc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDsP1--ttQc
      - yellowapple 1y ago
        That's all a massive step beyond "order a free part from the vendor with instructions on how to solder it on yourself".
simpaticoder 1y ago
>This is awesome though No, it's not awesome. Upgrading ram and disk or replacing a motherboard, screen or battery is great. Repairing a badly designed motherboard with a soldering iron is not great. In fact, it's bad. I think there's a good argument that it violates (warranty) law. If a car company sells to you based on "right to repair" and then it turns out there was a design defect in the engine, is it "awesome" if they tell you you need to pull the engine and rebuild it? Glad your battery life is good. I notice you didn't mention it losing power when suspended. Curious.
- akho 1y ago
  > I notice you didn't mention it losing power when suspended. Curious. Are you using a kernel > 6.8? It got (much) better.
  - simpaticoder 1y ago
    Interesting. I'm not normally in the habit of upgrading the kernel independently of the distribution, but it's worth trying. Thanks for the tip.
    - akho 1y ago
      On earlier kernels, `acpi_osi="!Windows 2020"` was often recommended. Though I'm note sure what it does. `nvme.noacpi=1` should be on, too, for all kernels. (all derived from the nixos-hardware repo; I use that)
      - simpaticoder 1y ago
        Thanks. I upgraded the kernel (had to turn off secure boot to do it), and set the nvme kernel option, too. So far no unwanted side-effects, but it's too soon to say if it fixed the problem.

pcdoodle 1y ago

You won't believe it but I can pull 30 hours at min brightness sitting at the windows desktop on the 11th gen 13 framework (Running Win10LTSC).

starkparker 1y ago

> Additionally, and non-trivially, the laptop's battery life is not good, and it drains very quickly on suspend Drain on suspend in particular has largely been resolved on newer mainboards, firmware, and kernel updates, though I don't have an 11th-gen Intel and haven't run Ubuntu for a long time. Kernel updates fixed this on my 12th-gen, firmware updates fixed it on my 7040, and my Ultra 7 155H never experienced this issue.

simpaticoder 1y ago
I'd happily accept a replacement motherboard. They aren't offering that though ,but I'd be impressed if they did.
olejorgenb 1y ago
Which kernel upgrade? I have a dell precision with 12th Generation Intel i5-12500H, and it can't suspend properly. The suspend is even flaky and fails to suspend at all half the time. I run fedora with a very new kernel. It has a Nvidia GPU though. But then again - it is "Ubuntu certified"...