4 ms·

You knew the question was coming. ThinkPad style trackpoint keyboard!

by juujian 1y ago

christiangenco 1y ago
Hah, I'm curious if this is legally possible. I've never seen that on any non-ThinkPad laptop.
- beAbU 1y ago
  Many dells and HPs come with track points
- yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
  I have multiple Dell laptops that have a mouse nub in the middle of the keyboard
  - jerlam 1y ago
    I've used it on a Dell laptop too, but it was far inferior to the Trackpoint. I think IBM/Lenovo had a patent on the specific technology but it might be expired now.
    - bluGill 1y ago
      The track point dates to the 1990's at least so at least the main patents have expired. I have no clue about advances they might have made
- noooooooph 1y ago
  I recall Dell had laptops in the past at some point that had blue trackpoint-like nubs
  - codr7 1y ago
    And they were complete trash in comparison to the ones on ThinkPads imo.
    - tracker1 1y ago
      I don't think more modern ThinkPads are much better... they have a shorter keyboard depth than the earlier models and the feel overall is significantly reduced... I understand as most people don't generally want a "thick" notebook.
      - codr7 1y ago
        I agree, they used to be a lot better. The beefier business line models are still decent though.
- soperj 1y ago
  I used a toshiba that only had the nub and no trackpad previously.
- jfvinueza 1y ago
  the HHKB studio has a trackpoint as well
- neilv 1y ago
  A TrackPoint-like "pointy stick" has been on some other major brands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Naming_and_brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Naming_and_bran...
nrp 1y ago
We actually go into this in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RzUBqtgODM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RzUBqtgODM
- starkparker 1y ago
  Specifically 11:04: https://youtu.be/0RzUBqtgODM?t=664 https://youtu.be/0RzUBqtgODM?t=664 > Something that we hear over and over again across our entire product lineup is that people want pointing sticks. You might know it as trackpoint from other brands. The little nubs that you can use as a mouse. Obviously, if you're a ThinkPad user, former ThinkPad user, that might be something that you're very familiar and comfortable with. And so, it is something that actually on all of our products several times over the last 5 years, we have tried to prototype and make work. The big challenge on this actually is just that there's very, very little space here. That the Zstack here is incredibly thin. > And for a keyboard, it works because the keys are compliant. If there's force that's put on the lid, like let's say you're got your laptop in a backpack with a book or something, it's just being pressed on like that, the screen is going to touch the keys and the keys are going to give way because they're just on these uh on these scissor mechanisms and the screen will be okay and you may get a little smudge you have to wipe off. You've got like finger grease on there. > A pointing stick though is not compliant. Not compliant in that way. So, you've got this like sharp point basically sticking out from the keyboard. And if there's pressure placed on the lid, that's going to go right onto that point on the tracking stick and end up damaging screen or have a high likelihood of damaging the screen. > And so, we've just kept over and over, we've kept trying this and seeing if we could get a low enough profile pointing stick solution to make that work, not risk the screen at all. And so far, that doesn't exist. That is something that we keep going into the supply base to try to find. > Hopefully we that is something we find in the future because of course with this input module system on framework laptop 16, it would end up being relatively straightforward for us to just make an input module a keyboard that you can swap in that's got that pointing stick unlike uh you know even our other laptops where you'd have to have an entirely new input cover to get that kind of functionality.
  - hnuser123456 1y ago
zem 1y ago
I used to like those but they started giving me rsi
- manuhabitela 1y ago
  Yeah, nowadays the trackpoint is just a bad pointing device. As laptops get slimmer, trackpoints get less precise and less usable. And they hurt our wrists. We just have to let go. A haptic trackpad is miles better now.

You knew the question was coming. ThinkPad style trackpoint keyboard!

christiangenco 1y ago

Hah, I'm curious if this is legally possible. I've never seen that on any non-ThinkPad laptop.

beAbU 1y ago
Many dells and HPs come with track points
yjftsjthsd-h 1y ago
I have multiple Dell laptops that have a mouse nub in the middle of the keyboard
- jerlam 1y ago
  I've used it on a Dell laptop too, but it was far inferior to the Trackpoint. I think IBM/Lenovo had a patent on the specific technology but it might be expired now.
  - bluGill 1y ago
    The track point dates to the 1990's at least so at least the main patents have expired. I have no clue about advances they might have made
noooooooph 1y ago
I recall Dell had laptops in the past at some point that had blue trackpoint-like nubs
- codr7 1y ago
  And they were complete trash in comparison to the ones on ThinkPads imo.
  - tracker1 1y ago
    I don't think more modern ThinkPads are much better... they have a shorter keyboard depth than the earlier models and the feel overall is significantly reduced... I understand as most people don't generally want a "thick" notebook.
    - codr7 1y ago
      I agree, they used to be a lot better. The beefier business line models are still decent though.
soperj 1y ago
I used a toshiba that only had the nub and no trackpad previously.
jfvinueza 1y ago
the HHKB studio has a trackpoint as well
neilv 1y ago
A TrackPoint-like "pointy stick" has been on some other major brands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Naming_and_brands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_stick#Naming_and_bran...

nrp 1y ago

We actually go into this in the video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RzUBqtgODM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RzUBqtgODM

starkparker 1y ago
Specifically 11:04: https://youtu.be/0RzUBqtgODM?t=664 https://youtu.be/0RzUBqtgODM?t=664 > Something that we hear over and over again across our entire product lineup is that people want pointing sticks. You might know it as trackpoint from other brands. The little nubs that you can use as a mouse. Obviously, if you're a ThinkPad user, former ThinkPad user, that might be something that you're very familiar and comfortable with. And so, it is something that actually on all of our products several times over the last 5 years, we have tried to prototype and make work. The big challenge on this actually is just that there's very, very little space here. That the Zstack here is incredibly thin. > And for a keyboard, it works because the keys are compliant. If there's force that's put on the lid, like let's say you're got your laptop in a backpack with a book or something, it's just being pressed on like that, the screen is going to touch the keys and the keys are going to give way because they're just on these uh on these scissor mechanisms and the screen will be okay and you may get a little smudge you have to wipe off. You've got like finger grease on there. > A pointing stick though is not compliant. Not compliant in that way. So, you've got this like sharp point basically sticking out from the keyboard. And if there's pressure placed on the lid, that's going to go right onto that point on the tracking stick and end up damaging screen or have a high likelihood of damaging the screen. > And so, we've just kept over and over, we've kept trying this and seeing if we could get a low enough profile pointing stick solution to make that work, not risk the screen at all. And so far, that doesn't exist. That is something that we keep going into the supply base to try to find. > Hopefully we that is something we find in the future because of course with this input module system on framework laptop 16, it would end up being relatively straightforward for us to just make an input module a keyboard that you can swap in that's got that pointing stick unlike uh you know even our other laptops where you'd have to have an entirely new input cover to get that kind of functionality.
- hnuser123456 1y ago

zem 1y ago

I used to like those but they started giving me rsi

manuhabitela 1y ago
Yeah, nowadays the trackpoint is just a bad pointing device. As laptops get slimmer, trackpoints get less precise and less usable. And they hurt our wrists. We just have to let go. A haptic trackpad is miles better now.