4 ms·

> All that to say: M1 is pretty fast, but the reason the battery life is better has to do with everything other than the CPU cores. That's what AMD and Intel ar

by RajT88 1y ago

> All that to say: M1 is pretty fast, but the reason the battery life is better has to do with everything other than the CPU cores. That's what AMD and Intel are missing. Apple is vertically integrated and can optimize at the OS and for many applications they ship with the device. Compare that to how many cooks are in the kitchen in Wintel land. Perfect example is trying to get to the bottom of why your windows laptop won't go to sleep and cooks itself in your backpack. Unless something's changed, last I checked it was a circular firing squad between laptop manufacturer, Microsoft and various hardware vendors all blaming each other.

amazingman 1y ago
I remember a time when this was supposed to be Wintel's advantage. It's really strange to now be in a time where Apple leads the consumer computing industry in hardware performance, yet is utterly failing at evolving the actual experience of using their computers. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who would gladly give up a bit of performance if it were going to result in a polished, consistent UI/UX based on the actual science of human interface design rather than this usability hellscape the Alan Dye era is sending us into.
bitwize 1y ago
Microsoft is pushing "Modern Standby" over actual sleep, so laptops can download and install updates while closed at night.
- reaperducer 1y ago
  Microsoft is pushing "Modern Standby" over actual sleep, so laptops can download and install updates while closed at night. Apple has this. It's called Power Nap. But for some reason, it doesn't cause the same problems reported by people here on HN.
  - bitwize 1y ago
    It doesn't cause the same problems because Apple's Power Nap is something you have to enable. It's an option for users who find it useful. It's not replacing traditional S3 sleep, wherein virtually everything is unpowered except a trickle to keep the RAM alive. Microsoft is supplanting traditional sleep with Modern Standby. You can disable Modern Standby, but only with registry jiggery-pokery, and Microsoft is pressuring OEMs to remove S3 support altogether.
  - diffeomorphism 1y ago
    It does cause the same problem but seems to be somewhat less frequent.
kube-system 1y ago
Also on the HN front page today: > Framework 16 > The 2nd Gen Keyboard retains the same hardware as the 1st Gen but introduces refreshed artwork and updated firmware, which includes a fix to prevent the system from waking while carried in a bag.
- RajT88 1y ago
  There are some reports of this with Macbooks as well. But my (non-scientific) impression is that a lot more people in Wintel land are seeing it. All of my work laptops, and a few of my personal laptops have done this to me since I started using Windows 10/11.
diggan 1y ago
> Apple is vertically integrated and can optimize > Compare that to how many cooks are in the kitchen in Wintel land. Perfect example is trying to get to the bottom of why your windows laptop won't go to sleep and cooks itself in your backpack So, I was thinking like this as well, and after I lost my Carbon X1 I felt adventurous, but not too adventurous, and wanted a laptop that "could just work". The thinking was "If Microsoft makes both the hardware and the software, it has to work perfectly fine, right?", so I bit my lip and got a Surface Pro 8. What a horrible laptop that was, even while I was trialing just running Windows on it. Overheated almost immediately by itself, just idling, and STILL suffers from the issue where the laptop sometimes wake itself while in my backpack, so when I actually needed it, of course it was hot and without battery. I've owned a lot of shit laptops through the years, even some without keys in the keyboard, back when I was dirt-poor, but the Surface Pro 8 is the worst of them all, I regret buying it a lot. I guess my point is that just because Apple seem really good at the whole "vertically integrated" concept, it isn't magic by itself, and Microsoft continues to fuck up the very same thing, even though they control the entire stack, so you'll still end up with backpack laptops turning themselves on/not turning off properly. I'd wager you could let Microsoft own every piece of physical material in the world, and they'd still not be able to make a decent laptop.
- 0xffff2 1y ago
  Surprised to hear this. Back in the Surface Pro 4 days, the hardware was great. I made it through college doing 95% of my work on a Surface Pro 4 tablet with the magnetic keyboard and almost always made it through the entire day without having to plug it in.
  - RajT88 1y ago
    My wife swears by her surface pros, and she has owned a few. I've had a few Surface Book 2's for work, and they were fine except: needed more RAM, and there was some issue with connection between screen and base which make USB headsets hinky.
- gowld 1y ago
  Apple has been vertically integrate for 50 years. Microsoft has been horizontally integrated for 50 years. That's why Apple is good at making a whole single system that works by itself, and Microsoft is good at making a system that works with almost everything almost everyone has made almost ever.
galad87 1y ago
macOS is a resource hungry pig, I wouldn't bet too much on it making a difference.
ben-schaaf 1y ago
This is easy to disprove. The Snapdragon X Elite has significantly better battery life than what AMD or Intel offer, and yet it's got the same number of cooks in the kitchen. > Perfect example is trying to get to the bottom of why your windows laptop won't go to sleep and cooks itself in your backpack Same thing happens in Apple land: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44745897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44745897. My Framework 16 hasn't had this issue, although the battery does deplete slowly due to shitty modern standby.
- williamDafoe 1y ago
  X Elite is not better than Ryzen5. Not better at all! Its why i own a hx365 AMD laptop...
  - ben-schaaf 1y ago
    Do you have a source on that? From every benchmark I've looked at the X Elite gets similar battery life to Apple Silicon, pretty far ahead of AMD.

by RajT88 1y ago

amazingman 1y ago

I remember a time when this was supposed to be Wintel's advantage. It's really strange to now be in a time where Apple leads the consumer computing industry in hardware performance, yet is utterly failing at evolving the actual experience of using their computers. I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one who would gladly give up a bit of performance if it were going to result in a polished, consistent UI/UX based on the actual science of human interface design rather than this usability hellscape the Alan Dye era is sending us into.

bitwize 1y ago

Microsoft is pushing "Modern Standby" over actual sleep, so laptops can download and install updates while closed at night.

reaperducer 1y ago
Microsoft is pushing "Modern Standby" over actual sleep, so laptops can download and install updates while closed at night. Apple has this. It's called Power Nap. But for some reason, it doesn't cause the same problems reported by people here on HN.
- bitwize 1y ago
  It doesn't cause the same problems because Apple's Power Nap is something you have to enable. It's an option for users who find it useful. It's not replacing traditional S3 sleep, wherein virtually everything is unpowered except a trickle to keep the RAM alive. Microsoft is supplanting traditional sleep with Modern Standby. You can disable Modern Standby, but only with registry jiggery-pokery, and Microsoft is pressuring OEMs to remove S3 support altogether.
- diffeomorphism 1y ago
  It does cause the same problem but seems to be somewhat less frequent.

kube-system 1y ago

Also on the HN front page today: > Framework 16 > The 2nd Gen Keyboard retains the same hardware as the 1st Gen but introduces refreshed artwork and updated firmware, which includes a fix to prevent the system from waking while carried in a bag.

RajT88 1y ago
There are some reports of this with Macbooks as well. But my (non-scientific) impression is that a lot more people in Wintel land are seeing it. All of my work laptops, and a few of my personal laptops have done this to me since I started using Windows 10/11.

diggan 1y ago

> Apple is vertically integrated and can optimize > Compare that to how many cooks are in the kitchen in Wintel land. Perfect example is trying to get to the bottom of why your windows laptop won't go to sleep and cooks itself in your backpack So, I was thinking like this as well, and after I lost my Carbon X1 I felt adventurous, but not too adventurous, and wanted a laptop that "could just work". The thinking was "If Microsoft makes both the hardware and the software, it has to work perfectly fine, right?", so I bit my lip and got a Surface Pro 8. What a horrible laptop that was, even while I was trialing just running Windows on it. Overheated almost immediately by itself, just idling, and STILL suffers from the issue where the laptop sometimes wake itself while in my backpack, so when I actually needed it, of course it was hot and without battery. I've owned a lot of shit laptops through the years, even some without keys in the keyboard, back when I was dirt-poor, but the Surface Pro 8 is the worst of them all, I regret buying it a lot. I guess my point is that just because Apple seem really good at the whole "vertically integrated" concept, it isn't magic by itself, and Microsoft continues to fuck up the very same thing, even though they control the entire stack, so you'll still end up with backpack laptops turning themselves on/not turning off properly. I'd wager you could let Microsoft own every piece of physical material in the world, and they'd still not be able to make a decent laptop.

0xffff2 1y ago
Surprised to hear this. Back in the Surface Pro 4 days, the hardware was great. I made it through college doing 95% of my work on a Surface Pro 4 tablet with the magnetic keyboard and almost always made it through the entire day without having to plug it in.
- RajT88 1y ago
  My wife swears by her surface pros, and she has owned a few. I've had a few Surface Book 2's for work, and they were fine except: needed more RAM, and there was some issue with connection between screen and base which make USB headsets hinky.
gowld 1y ago
Apple has been vertically integrate for 50 years. Microsoft has been horizontally integrated for 50 years. That's why Apple is good at making a whole single system that works by itself, and Microsoft is good at making a system that works with almost everything almost everyone has made almost ever.

galad87 1y ago

macOS is a resource hungry pig, I wouldn't bet too much on it making a difference.

ben-schaaf 1y ago

This is easy to disprove. The Snapdragon X Elite has significantly better battery life than what AMD or Intel offer, and yet it's got the same number of cooks in the kitchen. > Perfect example is trying to get to the bottom of why your windows laptop won't go to sleep and cooks itself in your backpack Same thing happens in Apple land: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44745897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44745897. My Framework 16 hasn't had this issue, although the battery does deplete slowly due to shitty modern standby.

williamDafoe 1y ago
X Elite is not better than Ryzen5. Not better at all! Its why i own a hx365 AMD laptop...
- ben-schaaf 1y ago
  Do you have a source on that? From every benchmark I've looked at the X Elite gets similar battery life to Apple Silicon, pretty far ahead of AMD.