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My "dumb" is what got you into this situation. I notice you left Denmark off that list. Wonder what's different there? Perhaps if your center-left / center-r

My "dumb" is what got you into this situation. I notice you left Denmark off that list. Wonder what's different there? Perhaps if your center-left / center-right parties realized, like anyone with a brain did well over a decade ago, that mass third world Muslim immigration into Europe is the stupidest political idea of the 21st century so far, you wouldn't be in this position. Perhaps if you realized your political foot gun is the real threat here, and not your own citizens who oppose it, you wouldn't be worrying about a "hitler gets elected again" scenario.

spwa4 1y ago
You're right, I guess, but ... Mass immigration is the only thing currently saving Europe from demographic collapse in the working age population. It is the only thing keeping pension systems afloat for the moment. It is faltering, the working age population will still collapse (and immigration is not saving anything but the huge cities. In the south of Europe entire regions are essentially depopulated and those regions are growing despite mass immigration) Yet another problem where there is no choice. Or there is a choice between "collapse now" and "collapse in 10 years". We're seeing a repeating theme here. And no worries: the EU governments are going to use spending cutbacks to get themselves out of this situation. Which again is the stupidest thing imaginable, because I can't even imageine a way to make that work ... but here we are.
- terminalshort 1y ago
  Demographic collapse is a myth. Japan has been in it for a couple decades. Sure, their economy is stagnant, but their standard of living is still very high and it is nothing resembling a "collapse." Arguments that we must allow mass immigration or face dire consequences are nonsense.
  - spwa4 1y ago
    I'd look up a few more stats and stories about the situation in Japan. Their economy has been stagnant ... well they call it a "lost decade". Despite the name, "decade", it's coming up on 36 years now. Outside of the major cities (and frankly inside, just to a lesser extent), everything has crashed - from education to grocery stores, to apartment sizes.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - spwa4 1y ago
    > Then why hasn't EU economy been boosted to the moon by the millions of mass immigrants who came to Europe since 2015 and has instead fallen behind the US and China even more? Because immigration at this level only managed to keep the workforce constant. It did not grow it. > Show me Europe's AMD or Nvidia that an illegal migrant founded You're probably right, immigrants from Syria and Afghanistan won't found microchip companies ... and we all know who does do that ... European immigrants. Most EU countries are losing 1-2% of their young population to emigration (5% of their workforce) PER YEAR, almost exclusively to the US (and yes, Trump has not changed that despite either Trump's own promises or the left's depiction of the US as the new Nazi Germany). > But what Europe has done is leave the front door open for anyone to come in off the street ... No, not really. Europe is in total panic because of young people leaving Europe en-masse. Mass-immigration has actually been able to keep the economy stagnant, which is a major miracle given the numbers. If you stop immigration, the emigration won't stop, so EU countries are going to forbid emigration while still allowing mass-immigration. (that's the next step people currently don't see coming. There are already a lot of measures in place in EU countries to stop anyone "worth it" from leaving. Google "exit tax") I find your post funny in a very ironic way: you are acting as if being in power actually gives you a choice, actually gives you the power to change things. Yes you can choose whether to hire Bob or Barbara, Irena or Stefan as your secretary, but you can't change anything fundamental. I mean, I guess I'm not the US president, maybe he can, but a lot of positions are very disappointing on that front.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >Because immigration at this level only managed to keep the workforce constant. It did not grow it. Why is the number of the imported workforce relevant and not their added value? What are you gonna do with millions of unskilled immigrants if the workers you're loosing are experienced doctors and engineers? 200 unskilled workers can't replace a retired doctor you need right now to care for your medical condition. Unless Europe's economic goal is to compete with India and Bangladesh on being the sweatshop of the world, then this strategy makes sense. >You're probably right, immigrants from Syria and Afghanistan won't found microchip companies ... and we all know who does do that ... European immigrants. Actually Taiwanese immigrants in this case, but don't focus on microchip companies, that was just an example I was using to make the point that Europe needs more skilled immigrants that create high value industries like the US does, rather than more kebab shops. >almost exclusively to the US I don't think the EU emigration to the US is that big of an issue. The bigger issue is the collapsing healthcare and welfare system including state pensions that draws ever nearer to us like the Titanic to the iceberg, as the massive bottom of the population pyramid approaches old age sickness and will need A LOT of care. You can't just throw unlimited unskilled bodies at the problem and expect it to solve itself while ignoring the additional problems this also creates. Plus you now also need to care for the illegal immigrants you took in who are sick and can't work because you didn't vet them. The core issue is that Europe's welfare state and asylum system without any caps, have been badly engineered from the get-go by the boomer generation, who wrote cheques their kids and grandkids now have to cash, which is unsustainable no matter how you try to jerry-rig and duct-tape it today with unskilled immigration, it's still gonna collapse eventually without a ground-up economic reform that the Eastern European countries went through after the fall of communism, as no country can support the infinite population growth required to support the healthcare and retirement lifestyle that boomers engineered for themselves of living till 85 but stop working at 65 resulting in a 20 year vacation funded by the next generations. Retirement was meant to care for you when you're too sick and old to work, not to be a 2 decade long jet-set holiday. >you are acting as if being in power actually gives you a choice, actually gives you the power to change things You definitely can change things for the better if you're willing to be tough. However nobody in EU politics has the balls to call a spade a spade, so we're just slowly heading towards that Iceberg in a managed decline.

spwa4 1y ago

You're right, I guess, but ... Mass immigration is the only thing currently saving Europe from demographic collapse in the working age population. It is the only thing keeping pension systems afloat for the moment. It is faltering, the working age population will still collapse (and immigration is not saving anything but the huge cities. In the south of Europe entire regions are essentially depopulated and those regions are growing despite mass immigration) Yet another problem where there is no choice. Or there is a choice between "collapse now" and "collapse in 10 years". We're seeing a repeating theme here. And no worries: the EU governments are going to use spending cutbacks to get themselves out of this situation. Which again is the stupidest thing imaginable, because I can't even imageine a way to make that work ... but here we are.

terminalshort 1y ago
Demographic collapse is a myth. Japan has been in it for a couple decades. Sure, their economy is stagnant, but their standard of living is still very high and it is nothing resembling a "collapse." Arguments that we must allow mass immigration or face dire consequences are nonsense.
- spwa4 1y ago
  I'd look up a few more stats and stories about the situation in Japan. Their economy has been stagnant ... well they call it a "lost decade". Despite the name, "decade", it's coming up on 36 years now. Outside of the major cities (and frankly inside, just to a lesser extent), everything has crashed - from education to grocery stores, to apartment sizes.
FirmwareBurner 1y ago
[flagged]
- spwa4 1y ago
  > Then why hasn't EU economy been boosted to the moon by the millions of mass immigrants who came to Europe since 2015 and has instead fallen behind the US and China even more? Because immigration at this level only managed to keep the workforce constant. It did not grow it. > Show me Europe's AMD or Nvidia that an illegal migrant founded You're probably right, immigrants from Syria and Afghanistan won't found microchip companies ... and we all know who does do that ... European immigrants. Most EU countries are losing 1-2% of their young population to emigration (5% of their workforce) PER YEAR, almost exclusively to the US (and yes, Trump has not changed that despite either Trump's own promises or the left's depiction of the US as the new Nazi Germany). > But what Europe has done is leave the front door open for anyone to come in off the street ... No, not really. Europe is in total panic because of young people leaving Europe en-masse. Mass-immigration has actually been able to keep the economy stagnant, which is a major miracle given the numbers. If you stop immigration, the emigration won't stop, so EU countries are going to forbid emigration while still allowing mass-immigration. (that's the next step people currently don't see coming. There are already a lot of measures in place in EU countries to stop anyone "worth it" from leaving. Google "exit tax") I find your post funny in a very ironic way: you are acting as if being in power actually gives you a choice, actually gives you the power to change things. Yes you can choose whether to hire Bob or Barbara, Irena or Stefan as your secretary, but you can't change anything fundamental. I mean, I guess I'm not the US president, maybe he can, but a lot of positions are very disappointing on that front.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >Because immigration at this level only managed to keep the workforce constant. It did not grow it. Why is the number of the imported workforce relevant and not their added value? What are you gonna do with millions of unskilled immigrants if the workers you're loosing are experienced doctors and engineers? 200 unskilled workers can't replace a retired doctor you need right now to care for your medical condition. Unless Europe's economic goal is to compete with India and Bangladesh on being the sweatshop of the world, then this strategy makes sense. >You're probably right, immigrants from Syria and Afghanistan won't found microchip companies ... and we all know who does do that ... European immigrants. Actually Taiwanese immigrants in this case, but don't focus on microchip companies, that was just an example I was using to make the point that Europe needs more skilled immigrants that create high value industries like the US does, rather than more kebab shops. >almost exclusively to the US I don't think the EU emigration to the US is that big of an issue. The bigger issue is the collapsing healthcare and welfare system including state pensions that draws ever nearer to us like the Titanic to the iceberg, as the massive bottom of the population pyramid approaches old age sickness and will need A LOT of care. You can't just throw unlimited unskilled bodies at the problem and expect it to solve itself while ignoring the additional problems this also creates. Plus you now also need to care for the illegal immigrants you took in who are sick and can't work because you didn't vet them. The core issue is that Europe's welfare state and asylum system without any caps, have been badly engineered from the get-go by the boomer generation, who wrote cheques their kids and grandkids now have to cash, which is unsustainable no matter how you try to jerry-rig and duct-tape it today with unskilled immigration, it's still gonna collapse eventually without a ground-up economic reform that the Eastern European countries went through after the fall of communism, as no country can support the infinite population growth required to support the healthcare and retirement lifestyle that boomers engineered for themselves of living till 85 but stop working at 65 resulting in a 20 year vacation funded by the next generations. Retirement was meant to care for you when you're too sick and old to work, not to be a 2 decade long jet-set holiday. >you are acting as if being in power actually gives you a choice, actually gives you the power to change things You definitely can change things for the better if you're willing to be tough. However nobody in EU politics has the balls to call a spade a spade, so we're just slowly heading towards that Iceberg in a managed decline.