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What's absurd though is that they have never demanded it for browsers. I think there is a much higher risk of someone being tricked into downloading a compromis
by ulrikrasmussen 1y ago
What's absurd though is that they have never demanded it for browsers. I think there is a much higher risk of someone being tricked into downloading a compromised browser with a backdoor than someone being tricked into downloading a modified version of their particular banking app. It gives the attacker the same level of control though.
- mike_hearn 1y agoBanks have never accepted browsers. They don't need to because they can require the web app be paired with a mobile app or SMS code to log in. Before they used mobile apps they issued smartcard readers (at least they did everywhere I lived). The smartcard readers were also used to digitally sign transactions. In other words, there aren't many banks that let you take sensitive actions with just a browser and that's been true since the start of online banking. These days they also apply differential risk analysis based on the device used to submit a transaction and do things to push people towards mobile. For instance in Switzerland there's now a whole standard for encoding invoices in QR codes. To pay those you must use the mobile apps. Edit: people are getting hung up on the "never accepted browsers" part. It means they only use the browser for unimportant interactions. For important stuff like login or tx auth, they expect the use of separate hardware that's more controlled like a SIM card/mobile radio, smartcard or smartphone app. Yes some banks are more lax than others but in large parts of the world this was always true since the start of online banking.
- ulrikrasmussen 1y agoThats ... false. Every bank I have used in Denmark allows me to log in and do all operations without an app. They require authentication and authorization using the national digital identity (MitID) which comes as an app, but also as a TOTP token and a FIDO (or similar) chip. No apps needed. I guess the smartcard reader is equivalent. But my point is that locking down the OS of the phone is sufficient to establish client trust but not necessary. You should always be allowed to run the app without strong Play Integrity verification but then just be required to scan your hardware token with NFC in every authentication and authorization flow.
- terminalshort 1y agoIn the US too. I have never ran into a situation where I had to use the app instead of the browser. I don't know what that guy is talking about.
- frickinLasers 1y agoMy US bank removed check deposits from the browser about a decade ago, and I haven't met anyone who can use Zelle without an app.
- hiatus 1y agoThat is a far cry from the original comment "banks have never accepted browsers".
- terminalshort 1y agoI have used zelle many times from the browser. It's been a while, so maybe that has changed, though. I never even tried to deposit a check from the browser or an app, so you may be right on that point.
- snark42 1y agoI have 3 different banks (well 2 banks and a credit union.) I can use Zelle in my browser from all 3. I don't even have the app installed for 2 of them.
- frickinLasers 1y agoHmm...I wonder if it matters which browser is being used.
- vbezhenar 1y agoIn my country almost all banks removed their web apps. They existed like 15 years ago, before smartphones became widespread, but nowadays very few banks offer web apps, only mobile apps.
- 1y ago
- master-lincoln 1y ago> In other words, there aren't many banks that let you take sensitive actions with just a browser and that's been true since the start of online banking. when I started online banking I used a browser and a TAN list for years. No apps required
- cubefox 1y ago"Browser and TAN list" is equivalent to "Browser and app". A browser can't be used in isolation, there is and was always some second factor required for online banking, but a banking app can be used in isolation.
- ulrikrasmussen 1y agoNo. The TAN list does not prevent you from removing Play Services from your device.
- cubefox 1y agoGranted.
- ekianjo 1y ago> Banks have never accepted browsers. What are you talking about? My bank accepts browsers and is a major one.
- greenavocado 1y agoYou are completely wrong
- devmor 1y agoI work in fintech, formerly as a contractor for some major banks, and absolutely nothing you say is true, generally. This might be the case for a couple of banks - or maybe in one or two specific countries, but broadly, none of what you've said here applies to banks anywhere else in the world.
- mike_hearn 1y agoWhich banks outside the US allow you to submit payments using only an arbitrary desktop browser, without any other device getting involved? No mobile phones to receive codes, no smartcard readers, no secure elements, nothing except a browser and a password? I have never encountered such a bank.
- capitainenemo 1y agoFWIW "SMS 2FA" or "email 2FA" can also be done from the same browser (google voice or similar, webmail) and I've used both with banks. That said, there is one major bank I use that still allows password only.
- devmor 1y agoI’m not sure why “outside the US” is a factor here, but nearly every bank in the world. Some only require email verification, some don’t even require that. There are banking systems in some countries that do not even require an ATM/Debit card for automated withdrawals, just an account number and grouping code.
- mike_hearn 1y agoIt's fascinating that people have had such different experiences here. In my entire life, I have never banked anywhere that would let you transact or log in with just a desktop browser. You seem to be convinced this is an edge case but every bank in Europe works this way, as far as I know. There are US financial institutions that would do this, but the US financial system is uniquely fraud prone to a level just not tolerated elsewhere. It lagged years behind on chip-and-PIN cards for instance, and largely never managed to roll it out. The US treats bank account numbers as credentials and other stuff that doesn't apply elsewhere. Just look at this thread: plenty of people saying what I'm saying. If you bank somewhere that lets people use just a browser to do transactions, you're either in an environment where fraud doesn't matter at all, or you're with a bad bank and should leave them.
- williamDafoe 1y agoIs wells fargo not a bank? It doesnt even use 2FA and you can log via a browser in a ship money all over the planet!
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- ratelimitsteve 1y agoIs this not more or less what Manifest is attempting to do? The headline grabber is that it disables ad-blocking but it's essentially trying to establish the browser as a "trusted" (owned) platform, no?
- tadfisher 1y agoYou're thinking of Google's attempt to port Play Integrity/Safetynet to the Web [0]. Nothing to do with Manifest V3, IIUC. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_Environment_Integrity
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