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this is how you lose your democracy - one rule broken after another, until nobody is sure where the limit is, because actually, there is no limit. As an apoliti

this is how you lose your democracy - one rule broken after another, until nobody is sure where the limit is, because actually, there is no limit. As an apolitical observer, the only hedge you have is to diversify, de-couple and de-risk

southernplaces7 1y ago
Combine a bullying, vindictive pushing of any convenient limit with a Republican Party that has completely emasculated itself and crawled well away from even the reasonable elements of restrained government it used to hold to, and Trump gets away with far more than he could if resistance to this obviously self-serving garbage came from both sides. Also, it's completely, hilariously, laughable that someone like Trump of all people would use the specific real estate-deal related excuses mentioned to justify his attempting to fire this governer.
lazyeye 1y ago
Other ways you can lose your democracy.... Using lawfare to try to take out a political opponent (ridiculous NY charge with no precedent, no victim, and from a DA who was famous for reducing felonies to misdemeanours but for Trump did the opposite) Applying govt pressure to social media companies to censor content they dont like thereby bypassing the 1st amendment (twitter files etc) Using the intelligence apparatus to try to take out a political opponent (russian collusion hoax, fake dossier) Relying on the media lies to maintain power (border is secure, Biden is mentally competent etc) Leaving the border wide open to allow in 10 million+ illegal immigrants in order to ultimately sway the voter demographics in your favor. Compared to this sacking somebody seems rather tame actually.....
- southernplaces7 1y ago
  On the one hand, the whatsaboutism of your comment is foolish. Whatever the bullshittery in the government actions you describe (and I agree that there was a fair bit of it), it doesn't make Trump's especially vindictive brand of doing these and other things any less worthy of resistance or strong push-back. If anything, similar and worse are more dangerous under this raging bully, specifically because he is deeply, personally, a bullying authoritarian narcissist who will only push the envelope further as he's given more license. This makes his administration's nasty habits qualitatively more dangerous from the more muddled, bureaucratic kind of things you describe of the Biden administration. Remember also that the precedents of behavior and lawless actions set by Trump's government will be all the more easier under future administrations, even ones you don't like. That alone should worry you enough to not just focus on saying "but the guy before did bad so this is silly"
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    It is interesting to observe that parent commenter used the same sequence of critiques in another comment also (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915623). They seem quite intent on injecting this sequence of ideas into as many threads as possible. I can't speculate on their motives. I am reminded, however, of an old observation once made about the effect of something being told a thousand times...
    - lazyeye 1y ago
      Yes it was obviously a cut and paste from a previous comment for the simple reason that the same point was being made. And honestly the idea that me putting forward a consistent point of view is somehow indicative of inauthenticity is kind of silly. I'd say look at your own chat history. I am reminded that insufferable hypocrisy is a common thing online.
  - lazyeye 1y ago
    "and I agree that there was a fair bit of it..." This casual aside is really doing alot of heavy lifting here and doesnt really acknowledge the scale of the problem. Dismissing it as "muddled bureacracy" doesnt even come close. After 4 years of the previous administration, the American people voted in the most disruptive change agent in US political history. And they did this with full knowledge of how he operates from his previous 4 years in the presidency. There is a counter-revolution happening right now and there is a popular mandate for this. And this means a few people are going to lose their job. I dont have any numbers for this but its probably likely that just as many, if not more, conservatives lost their jobs under the previous administration. (DEI provides a wonderful camouflage for political cleansing at scale).
    - shadowgovt 1y ago
      You'll want to learn more about the distinction between "political appointees" (who, yes, are generally changed out when the administration changes) and "career civil servants." Trump's administration as President 47 has gone deeply after the latter, which is new. And, arguably, dangerous; we do not know what happens to the function of the modern federal government when we start pushing out skilled professionals in the specifics of administration of specific pieces of the bureaucracy and replacing them with neophytes. We don't know because it isn't done (and may be illegal, see https://www.nteu.org/schedulef https://www.nteu.org/schedulef - the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act of 1883 was created to prevent "spoils system" hiring and firing after President Garfield was assassinated by someone who believed he should receive a civil service job for supporting the President). I think you are correct that a counter-revolution is in progress. Not all revolutions end in something better. Most end in something remarkably worse.

southernplaces7 1y ago

Combine a bullying, vindictive pushing of any convenient limit with a Republican Party that has completely emasculated itself and crawled well away from even the reasonable elements of restrained government it used to hold to, and Trump gets away with far more than he could if resistance to this obviously self-serving garbage came from both sides. Also, it's completely, hilariously, laughable that someone like Trump of all people would use the specific real estate-deal related excuses mentioned to justify his attempting to fire this governer.

lazyeye 1y ago

Other ways you can lose your democracy.... Using lawfare to try to take out a political opponent (ridiculous NY charge with no precedent, no victim, and from a DA who was famous for reducing felonies to misdemeanours but for Trump did the opposite) Applying govt pressure to social media companies to censor content they dont like thereby bypassing the 1st amendment (twitter files etc) Using the intelligence apparatus to try to take out a political opponent (russian collusion hoax, fake dossier) Relying on the media lies to maintain power (border is secure, Biden is mentally competent etc) Leaving the border wide open to allow in 10 million+ illegal immigrants in order to ultimately sway the voter demographics in your favor. Compared to this sacking somebody seems rather tame actually.....

southernplaces7 1y ago
On the one hand, the whatsaboutism of your comment is foolish. Whatever the bullshittery in the government actions you describe (and I agree that there was a fair bit of it), it doesn't make Trump's especially vindictive brand of doing these and other things any less worthy of resistance or strong push-back. If anything, similar and worse are more dangerous under this raging bully, specifically because he is deeply, personally, a bullying authoritarian narcissist who will only push the envelope further as he's given more license. This makes his administration's nasty habits qualitatively more dangerous from the more muddled, bureaucratic kind of things you describe of the Biden administration. Remember also that the precedents of behavior and lawless actions set by Trump's government will be all the more easier under future administrations, even ones you don't like. That alone should worry you enough to not just focus on saying "but the guy before did bad so this is silly"
- shadowgovt 1y ago
  It is interesting to observe that parent commenter used the same sequence of critiques in another comment also (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915623 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44915623). They seem quite intent on injecting this sequence of ideas into as many threads as possible. I can't speculate on their motives. I am reminded, however, of an old observation once made about the effect of something being told a thousand times...
  - lazyeye 1y ago
    Yes it was obviously a cut and paste from a previous comment for the simple reason that the same point was being made. And honestly the idea that me putting forward a consistent point of view is somehow indicative of inauthenticity is kind of silly. I'd say look at your own chat history. I am reminded that insufferable hypocrisy is a common thing online.
- lazyeye 1y ago
  "and I agree that there was a fair bit of it..." This casual aside is really doing alot of heavy lifting here and doesnt really acknowledge the scale of the problem. Dismissing it as "muddled bureacracy" doesnt even come close. After 4 years of the previous administration, the American people voted in the most disruptive change agent in US political history. And they did this with full knowledge of how he operates from his previous 4 years in the presidency. There is a counter-revolution happening right now and there is a popular mandate for this. And this means a few people are going to lose their job. I dont have any numbers for this but its probably likely that just as many, if not more, conservatives lost their jobs under the previous administration. (DEI provides a wonderful camouflage for political cleansing at scale).
  - shadowgovt 1y ago
    You'll want to learn more about the distinction between "political appointees" (who, yes, are generally changed out when the administration changes) and "career civil servants." Trump's administration as President 47 has gone deeply after the latter, which is new. And, arguably, dangerous; we do not know what happens to the function of the modern federal government when we start pushing out skilled professionals in the specifics of administration of specific pieces of the bureaucracy and replacing them with neophytes. We don't know because it isn't done (and may be illegal, see https://www.nteu.org/schedulef https://www.nteu.org/schedulef - the Pendleton Civil Service Reform Act of 1883 was created to prevent "spoils system" hiring and firing after President Garfield was assassinated by someone who believed he should receive a civil service job for supporting the President). I think you are correct that a counter-revolution is in progress. Not all revolutions end in something better. Most end in something remarkably worse.