8 ms·

The funny thing is Stallman started his fight like half a century ago and on regular days Hacker News shits on him eating something off of his foot and not bein

by tgma 1y ago

The funny thing is Stallman started his fight like half a century ago and on regular days Hacker News shits on him eating something off of his foot and not being polished and diplomatic, and loves practical aspects of Corporate Open Source and gratis goodies and doesn't particularly care about Free Software. On this day suddenly folks come out of the woodwork advocating for half baked measures to achieve what Stallman portrayed but they still hardly recognize this was EXACTLY his concern when he started the Free Software movement.

BrenBarn 1y ago
It's possible to believe both that Stallman is over the top and that stuff like this Google action is bad, and even to be right on both. It's even easier to believe that Stallman has had some good ideas but is still a deeply flawed human being, and has also incidentally not been the most effective advocate for his own ideals.
- tgma 1y ago
  It is possible, sure, but I have a feeling it goes unrecognized how prophetic and precise his concerns were, and that this is very similar to his original issue with the closed-source printer software he was not allowed to fix, and he does not get credit for his predictions, as people simply pass by, and not connect it to the Free Software issue, when issues like this happen; meanwhile he takes all the downsides of being brash and anti-corporate, which is taken advantage of by the Corporate Open Source crowd.
  - BrenBarn 1y ago
    But Android is open source. In a way the situation here shows the limits of what is possible just by imposing license requirements that require distribution of source code. The problem is the concentration of power in the provision of services. Even licenses like the AGPL don't really solve the problem here, which is that there is a coalition of businesses including, say, Google and banks, that via their provision of essential services hold worrisome sway over the practical ability of many individuals to live their lives. Stallman's statements about how the person controlling nonfree software "is your master" are important, but they don't go far enough. The problem is not just the controlling of abstract intellectual property like intellectual property rights to particular software. The problem includes the actual control of how services are provided. When the provision of important services --- be they auth, email, banking, groceries, whatever --- is concentrated in a few hands, those hands become masters of many, regardless of the software licenses involved.
    - ekianjo 1y ago
      Android is open source but not "free software" which is exactly on point. People have been fooled to think that open=respecting your freedoms, but there is no equivalency.
      - BrenBarn 1y ago
        Basically my point is that it's not really about software. It's about access to things that are of practical use. Having a monopoly (or oligopoly) on hamburgers or hammers would be a similar problem. It's true that within the software realm, open source (or "free software" or whatever other term you want to use) increases access, but it doesn't in itself solve the problem. The people writing the software need to eat and if they can't do that it doesn't matter what the license is, the software won't get written and no one will be able to use it. Moves like this thing by Google are about economics rather than licenses or abstract ideas like "freedom". A world with ten gazillion closed-source programs competing would likely be more free than one with tons of open source software but only one company that can pay a living wage so that people can work on that software.
    - tgma 1y ago
      Yes, in a way FSF has succeeded beyond their wildest imagination and they are facing a new world with new challenges. > The problem includes the actual control of how services are provided. FSF has opinions about SaaS which they call SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute). https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
    - kuschku 1y ago
      > Even licenses like the AGPL don't really solve the problem here, which is that there is a coalition of businesses including, say, Google and banks, that via their provision of essential services hold worrisome sway over the practical ability of many individuals to live their lives If Android was AGPL without source assignment, this wouldn't be an issue. Thanks to the anti-tivoization clause manufacturers are required to provide you with the ability to run your own code on the device, without any restrictions, so you'd have a guaranteed right to root the device and sideload your own apps, without something like SafetyNet being able to figure it out.
- Gud 1y ago
  Who is doing a better job? Because I see A LOT of “open source” advocates these days, and more and more “source available”. But the old school Free Software hippies(that started with BSD, NOT GNU, IMNHO) are slowly dying out and being replaced with?
  - BlueTemplar 1y ago
    I can understand why some devs would have tried to ignore the writing on the wall for Android over the last few years (hopefully not from now on), but it's especially galling when you see some of them still using the likes of Github and Discord...
    - palata 1y ago
      It's interesting because I feel like I see more criticism against Android devs than against web devs. As if the web was "more free". AOSP is as open source as Chromium is, and both are controlled by Google. To those who criticise Android devs... are you running Firefox?
  - gorbachev 1y ago
    Cory Doctorow. He's not an open source advocate as such, but his work on consumer rights and enshittification promotes solutions like using open source software, right to repair and strong consumer protection regulations.
- munchlax 1y ago
  It's easy to piss on the individual. Ask yourself how come free software is everywhere, with licenses for various stuff neatly tucked away out of sight unless you're trying to find it, not to mention all the giant clusters of Linux machines in data centers running Samba, PostgreSQL, and all sorts of free software, and at the same time the FSF still has just a small appartment on the 5th floor of a building in Boston? Here, take a look: https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/tour-2010 https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/tour-2010
  - GoblinSlayer 1y ago
    It has http links to images that don't display when mixing secure content with insecure is disabled.
  - windward 1y ago
    They don't work there any more. https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/ https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/ >As of September 1, 2024, we have gone remote and no longer have an office for people to visit. IIRC they moved somewhere else in the interim.
- SlowTao 1y ago
  Having spoken to Stallman over the years many times. One of the most difficult people to talk to, but completely spot on with his ideas.
  - palata 1y ago
    > completely spot on with his ideas. Which ideas? I've read ideas from him that were borderline scandalous. I wouldn't say that 100% of what he ever said was "completely spot on". Now if we are talking about the subset of his ideas that were completely spot on, then yeah, they are completely spot on :-). I guess my point is that one can agree with a subset of his ideas and still dislike the guy. And I don't see why those ideas couldn't live without him. Especially if they are completely spot on. I don't get the cult of personality, not only for Stallman.
    - SlowTao 1y ago
      Just talking about his views on software and technology. When it comes to stuff outside that, I get his logic but damn he misses on a lot of things. Some very notable over the years. ;)
shazbotter 1y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- gitaarik 1y ago
  I think his proposal to use "per" instead of "they" actually makes a lot of sense, because "they" is very confusing in a lot of contexts, because it's a word already used for another function. I don't see how you perceive that as something negative. The quote about pedophilia is concerning indeed, but I think that rather stems from ignorance about the issues than promoting pedophelia. It's easy to shit on such things and wokely dismiss someone's entire opinion, which I find a bit weak.
  - estomagordo 1y ago
    The guy quite obviously is diversely talented. A computer genius, but well below generally agreed upon levels of mental deficiency in areas that most people care about.
  - tgma 1y ago
    Some context re that matter: https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html#pedophilia https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai...
- Levitz 1y ago
  I don't think I can come up with a worse reason to build an opinion on someone than not following the orthodoxy in the extremely stupid context of culture wars.
  - wolvesechoes 1y ago
    Especially that big corpos are very willing to use any pronouns you'd like.
cedilla 1y ago
Stallman actively hurts the cause with his behaviour. I'm not only talking about his eccentricities, but also the adversarial and combative language. Yes, Amazon is trying to swindle us, but few people will be convinced of that when you start your argument by calling the kindle an "Amazon swindle" every time, directly implying that anyone who has one is an idiot or even malicious. Yes, it's unfair that someone can be 100% correct but people won't listen to them because of their appearance or mannerisms. But whining about that unfairness is unproductive. People will never listen to someone who can't stop themselves from eating stuff from their foot in public.
- alt187 1y ago
  Stallman's mannerisms are one of the only reason FOSS is still standing. First of all, from a public image point of view, it really doesn't matter at all whether he ate something off his foot or whether he says "Amazon swindle", because Stallman isn't the gateway into free softward anymore. To an order of magnitude, no one in the last 15 years has heard of Stallman then free software. The real role of Stallman is to avoid the movement being co-opted by soulless and/or corporate interests. As long as Stallman is here, you can't make free software corporate and well-mannered, which essentially means you can't absorb it into a marketing strategy for your next brand of phones unless you actually plan to deliver.
- tgma 1y ago
  I used to 100% feel the same, but at some point I realized the problem was me, not him, in not viscerally understanding his goals. His stated goals are very clear, but the audience usually has somewhat overlapping, but nevertheless distinct goals. This is indeed at the very core of Open Source-Free Software feud. The base is almost entirely the same people, yet the ideologies are not the same, and in a very interesting way: the differences are critical to RMS's ideology, but minute to the other side. Thus, the other side thinks of a crazy guy ruining the whole thing for nothing or very little, and evaluates him as net negative for "the cause." Well, it is absolutely true, for their cause, not his. I think his take on what compromises are valid and what aren't makes this clear: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.en.html In fact, this particular incident, re Android, a seemingly "open" system, is a perfect example of the importance of his PoV in particular, as it illustrates that Open Source ideology would not have been enough to ensure the user is in control.
mdp2021 1y ago
This friend of mine dealt with S. - and found a completely irrational part. We tried to steer history for the best, S. let it flow (in that occasion, of course. He just would not listen).
selfmodruntime 1y ago
We really shouldn’t have the frontman of free software be someone who is a creep towards women and who can’t take care of himself.
bunbun69 1y ago
fact: it is possible to be a good and clean person at the same time
togetheragainor 1y ago
I read your comment and assumed he ate some food that fell on his foot. And I thought that was gross. But omg it’s so much worse
- asimovfan 1y ago
  is it really worse than losing your freedoms?
tecleandor 1y ago
[flagged]
- nashashmi 1y ago
  I can understand Defending bad people. He is railing against freedom of injustice. I understand being abusive. He is feeling hopeless. I haven’t seen Harassment so I don’t know what to make of it. He seems to walk the path of purity of ideas. And may come off as aggressive. As a by product, he may also be aloof from the career ladder. His trust in being nice to people is broken (autism?). He has some good civil rights stuff https://www.stallman.org/ https://www.stallman.org/
- argomo 1y ago
  Stallman was smeared for being uncompromisingly rigorous and objective: https://stallmansupport.org/explaining-events-that-led-to-stallman-resignation-background.html https://stallmansupport.org/explaining-events-that-led-to-st... It was all witch hunt from there.
  - tecleandor 1y ago
    What witch-hunt. What Epstein. Just read RMSs blog.
jacquesm 1y ago
There are people who have been pretty steady in their convictions over decades. Not that we have much illusions about the end game. Stallman has issues, but they're minor compared to the issues that the likes of Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Microsoft have. But they get to hide their nasty little habits behind the corporate veil of respectability.
exe34 1y ago
one can both see far into the future and fit one's foot into one's own mouth. it is possible to do two things.
watwut 1y ago
> not being polished and diplomatic That is severe understatement. Plenty of people and political activists are not polished and not diplomatic ... while still not reaching Stallmans levels. Majority of them, actually. > eating something off of his foot Yeah, that episode is unforgettable.
zulban 1y ago
He can be mostly right but also terrible for his own cause at the same time. Anyone that doesn't see that must not know even the tiniest fraction of the stories, or like him also has a cognitive disability.
xtracto 1y ago
It's a sad state of affairs when a guy born in 1953 and a 70+ years old is our reference for freedom. What happened to GenX, Millenials and GenZ ? Why aren't there any more vocal activists doing something? The internet fuked us up. We're full of armchair experts "fighting" the cause laying in our coach.
- BiteCode_dev 1y ago
  Millenials here. We did. A lot of a lot. And nobody cared. Even today on HN most use chrome instead of firefox and mac instead of linux and. If you can't even convince the biggest nerds that supporting alternatives is important, what chances do you have?
  - hollerith 1y ago
    This nerd cares about security, and Chrome is significantly more secure than Firefox and Mac is significantly more secure than any Linux distro.
    - fsflover 1y ago
      If you actually cared about security, you would use Qubes OS. With the latter, security of Firefox is more than sufficient for everything.
      - hollerith 1y ago
        MacOS is more secure than Qubes IMO.
        fsflover 1y ago
        You should just compare the number of CVEs. Qubes security is stronger even than the one of Xen used in servers: https://www.qubes-os.org/security/xsa/#statistics https://www.qubes-os.org/security/xsa/#statistics. Even Snowden uses Qubes. No single app has access to any data thanks to hardware-assisted virtualization. Last time a VM escape in the modern Qubes implementation was discovered in 2006 by the Qubes founder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software).
827a 1y ago
No, I hate this change from Google, and everyone involved with it should be ashamed of themselves, but Stallman is an extremest and I don't believe his world would be better than this one. There's genuine need for application developers to gain access to extremely secure end-to-end attestation of the environment their apps are running in. Its a rare need, but it does exist. There's also genuine need for some consumers to opt-in to a strict security regime. Google's change forces this draconian, dishonorable regime on all application developers and on all users. Its a change that serves no one except their shareholders.
- fsflover 1y ago
  > but Stallman is an extremest No, he isn't, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45025116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45025116
xbar 1y ago
It is right to highlight the fight for libre software that Stallman championed. The world would be a much, much worse place without Free Software. We own the obligation to keep the fight up. So many of us profit from it, and so many people depend on it.

by tgma 1y ago

BrenBarn 1y ago

It's possible to believe both that Stallman is over the top and that stuff like this Google action is bad, and even to be right on both. It's even easier to believe that Stallman has had some good ideas but is still a deeply flawed human being, and has also incidentally not been the most effective advocate for his own ideals.

tgma 1y ago
It is possible, sure, but I have a feeling it goes unrecognized how prophetic and precise his concerns were, and that this is very similar to his original issue with the closed-source printer software he was not allowed to fix, and he does not get credit for his predictions, as people simply pass by, and not connect it to the Free Software issue, when issues like this happen; meanwhile he takes all the downsides of being brash and anti-corporate, which is taken advantage of by the Corporate Open Source crowd.
- BrenBarn 1y ago
  But Android is open source. In a way the situation here shows the limits of what is possible just by imposing license requirements that require distribution of source code. The problem is the concentration of power in the provision of services. Even licenses like the AGPL don't really solve the problem here, which is that there is a coalition of businesses including, say, Google and banks, that via their provision of essential services hold worrisome sway over the practical ability of many individuals to live their lives. Stallman's statements about how the person controlling nonfree software "is your master" are important, but they don't go far enough. The problem is not just the controlling of abstract intellectual property like intellectual property rights to particular software. The problem includes the actual control of how services are provided. When the provision of important services --- be they auth, email, banking, groceries, whatever --- is concentrated in a few hands, those hands become masters of many, regardless of the software licenses involved.
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    Android is open source but not "free software" which is exactly on point. People have been fooled to think that open=respecting your freedoms, but there is no equivalency.
    - BrenBarn 1y ago
      Basically my point is that it's not really about software. It's about access to things that are of practical use. Having a monopoly (or oligopoly) on hamburgers or hammers would be a similar problem. It's true that within the software realm, open source (or "free software" or whatever other term you want to use) increases access, but it doesn't in itself solve the problem. The people writing the software need to eat and if they can't do that it doesn't matter what the license is, the software won't get written and no one will be able to use it. Moves like this thing by Google are about economics rather than licenses or abstract ideas like "freedom". A world with ten gazillion closed-source programs competing would likely be more free than one with tons of open source software but only one company that can pay a living wage so that people can work on that software.
  - tgma 1y ago
    Yes, in a way FSF has succeeded beyond their wildest imagination and they are facing a new world with new challenges. > The problem includes the actual control of how services are provided. FSF has opinions about SaaS which they call SaaSS (Service as a Software Substitute). https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-serve.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/who-does-that-server-really-s...
  - kuschku 1y ago
    > Even licenses like the AGPL don't really solve the problem here, which is that there is a coalition of businesses including, say, Google and banks, that via their provision of essential services hold worrisome sway over the practical ability of many individuals to live their lives If Android was AGPL without source assignment, this wouldn't be an issue. Thanks to the anti-tivoization clause manufacturers are required to provide you with the ability to run your own code on the device, without any restrictions, so you'd have a guaranteed right to root the device and sideload your own apps, without something like SafetyNet being able to figure it out.
Gud 1y ago
Who is doing a better job? Because I see A LOT of “open source” advocates these days, and more and more “source available”. But the old school Free Software hippies(that started with BSD, NOT GNU, IMNHO) are slowly dying out and being replaced with?
- BlueTemplar 1y ago
  I can understand why some devs would have tried to ignore the writing on the wall for Android over the last few years (hopefully not from now on), but it's especially galling when you see some of them still using the likes of Github and Discord...
  - palata 1y ago
    It's interesting because I feel like I see more criticism against Android devs than against web devs. As if the web was "more free". AOSP is as open source as Chromium is, and both are controlled by Google. To those who criticise Android devs... are you running Firefox?
- gorbachev 1y ago
  Cory Doctorow. He's not an open source advocate as such, but his work on consumer rights and enshittification promotes solutions like using open source software, right to repair and strong consumer protection regulations.
munchlax 1y ago
It's easy to piss on the individual. Ask yourself how come free software is everywhere, with licenses for various stuff neatly tucked away out of sight unless you're trying to find it, not to mention all the giant clusters of Linux machines in data centers running Samba, PostgreSQL, and all sorts of free software, and at the same time the FSF still has just a small appartment on the 5th floor of a building in Boston? Here, take a look: https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/tour-2010 https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/tour-2010
- GoblinSlayer 1y ago
  It has http links to images that don't display when mixing secure content with insecure is disabled.
- windward 1y ago
  They don't work there any more. https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/ https://www.fsf.org/about/contact/ >As of September 1, 2024, we have gone remote and no longer have an office for people to visit. IIRC they moved somewhere else in the interim.
SlowTao 1y ago
Having spoken to Stallman over the years many times. One of the most difficult people to talk to, but completely spot on with his ideas.
- palata 1y ago
  > completely spot on with his ideas. Which ideas? I've read ideas from him that were borderline scandalous. I wouldn't say that 100% of what he ever said was "completely spot on". Now if we are talking about the subset of his ideas that were completely spot on, then yeah, they are completely spot on :-). I guess my point is that one can agree with a subset of his ideas and still dislike the guy. And I don't see why those ideas couldn't live without him. Especially if they are completely spot on. I don't get the cult of personality, not only for Stallman.
  - SlowTao 1y ago
    Just talking about his views on software and technology. When it comes to stuff outside that, I get his logic but damn he misses on a lot of things. Some very notable over the years. ;)

shazbotter 1y ago

[flagged]

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
gitaarik 1y ago
I think his proposal to use "per" instead of "they" actually makes a lot of sense, because "they" is very confusing in a lot of contexts, because it's a word already used for another function. I don't see how you perceive that as something negative. The quote about pedophilia is concerning indeed, but I think that rather stems from ignorance about the issues than promoting pedophelia. It's easy to shit on such things and wokely dismiss someone's entire opinion, which I find a bit weak.
- estomagordo 1y ago
  The guy quite obviously is diversely talented. A computer genius, but well below generally agreed upon levels of mental deficiency in areas that most people care about.
- tgma 1y ago
  Some context re that matter: https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-against-richard-stallman.html#pedophilia https://stallmansupport.org/debunking-false-accusations-agai...
Levitz 1y ago
I don't think I can come up with a worse reason to build an opinion on someone than not following the orthodoxy in the extremely stupid context of culture wars.
- wolvesechoes 1y ago
  Especially that big corpos are very willing to use any pronouns you'd like.

cedilla 1y ago

Stallman actively hurts the cause with his behaviour. I'm not only talking about his eccentricities, but also the adversarial and combative language. Yes, Amazon is trying to swindle us, but few people will be convinced of that when you start your argument by calling the kindle an "Amazon swindle" every time, directly implying that anyone who has one is an idiot or even malicious. Yes, it's unfair that someone can be 100% correct but people won't listen to them because of their appearance or mannerisms. But whining about that unfairness is unproductive. People will never listen to someone who can't stop themselves from eating stuff from their foot in public.

alt187 1y ago
Stallman's mannerisms are one of the only reason FOSS is still standing. First of all, from a public image point of view, it really doesn't matter at all whether he ate something off his foot or whether he says "Amazon swindle", because Stallman isn't the gateway into free softward anymore. To an order of magnitude, no one in the last 15 years has heard of Stallman then free software. The real role of Stallman is to avoid the movement being co-opted by soulless and/or corporate interests. As long as Stallman is here, you can't make free software corporate and well-mannered, which essentially means you can't absorb it into a marketing strategy for your next brand of phones unless you actually plan to deliver.
tgma 1y ago
I used to 100% feel the same, but at some point I realized the problem was me, not him, in not viscerally understanding his goals. His stated goals are very clear, but the audience usually has somewhat overlapping, but nevertheless distinct goals. This is indeed at the very core of Open Source-Free Software feud. The base is almost entirely the same people, yet the ideologies are not the same, and in a very interesting way: the differences are critical to RMS's ideology, but minute to the other side. Thus, the other side thinks of a crazy guy ruining the whole thing for nothing or very little, and evaluates him as net negative for "the cause." Well, it is absolutely true, for their cause, not his. I think his take on what compromises are valid and what aren't makes this clear: https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.en.html https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.en.html In fact, this particular incident, re Android, a seemingly "open" system, is a perfect example of the importance of his PoV in particular, as it illustrates that Open Source ideology would not have been enough to ensure the user is in control.

mdp2021 1y ago

This friend of mine dealt with S. - and found a completely irrational part. We tried to steer history for the best, S. let it flow (in that occasion, of course. He just would not listen).

selfmodruntime 1y ago

We really shouldn’t have the frontman of free software be someone who is a creep towards women and who can’t take care of himself.

bunbun69 1y ago

fact: it is possible to be a good and clean person at the same time

togetheragainor 1y ago

I read your comment and assumed he ate some food that fell on his foot. And I thought that was gross. But omg it’s so much worse

asimovfan 1y ago
is it really worse than losing your freedoms?

tecleandor 1y ago

[flagged]

nashashmi 1y ago
I can understand Defending bad people. He is railing against freedom of injustice. I understand being abusive. He is feeling hopeless. I haven’t seen Harassment so I don’t know what to make of it. He seems to walk the path of purity of ideas. And may come off as aggressive. As a by product, he may also be aloof from the career ladder. His trust in being nice to people is broken (autism?). He has some good civil rights stuff https://www.stallman.org/ https://www.stallman.org/
argomo 1y ago
Stallman was smeared for being uncompromisingly rigorous and objective: https://stallmansupport.org/explaining-events-that-led-to-stallman-resignation-background.html https://stallmansupport.org/explaining-events-that-led-to-st... It was all witch hunt from there.
- tecleandor 1y ago
  What witch-hunt. What Epstein. Just read RMSs blog.

jacquesm 1y ago

There are people who have been pretty steady in their convictions over decades. Not that we have much illusions about the end game. Stallman has issues, but they're minor compared to the issues that the likes of Google, Apple, Facebook, Amazon and Microsoft have. But they get to hide their nasty little habits behind the corporate veil of respectability.

exe34 1y ago

one can both see far into the future and fit one's foot into one's own mouth. it is possible to do two things.

watwut 1y ago

> not being polished and diplomatic That is severe understatement. Plenty of people and political activists are not polished and not diplomatic ... while still not reaching Stallmans levels. Majority of them, actually. > eating something off of his foot Yeah, that episode is unforgettable.

zulban 1y ago

He can be mostly right but also terrible for his own cause at the same time. Anyone that doesn't see that must not know even the tiniest fraction of the stories, or like him also has a cognitive disability.

xtracto 1y ago

It's a sad state of affairs when a guy born in 1953 and a 70+ years old is our reference for freedom. What happened to GenX, Millenials and GenZ ? Why aren't there any more vocal activists doing something? The internet fuked us up. We're full of armchair experts "fighting" the cause laying in our coach.

BiteCode_dev 1y ago
Millenials here. We did. A lot of a lot. And nobody cared. Even today on HN most use chrome instead of firefox and mac instead of linux and. If you can't even convince the biggest nerds that supporting alternatives is important, what chances do you have?
- hollerith 1y ago
  This nerd cares about security, and Chrome is significantly more secure than Firefox and Mac is significantly more secure than any Linux distro.
  - fsflover 1y ago
    If you actually cared about security, you would use Qubes OS. With the latter, security of Firefox is more than sufficient for everything.
    - hollerith 1y ago
      MacOS is more secure than Qubes IMO.
      - fsflover 1y ago
        You should just compare the number of CVEs. Qubes security is stronger even than the one of Xen used in servers: https://www.qubes-os.org/security/xsa/#statistics https://www.qubes-os.org/security/xsa/#statistics. Even Snowden uses Qubes. No single app has access to any data thanks to hardware-assisted virtualization. Last time a VM escape in the modern Qubes implementation was discovered in 2006 by the Qubes founder: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_Pill_(software).

827a 1y ago

No, I hate this change from Google, and everyone involved with it should be ashamed of themselves, but Stallman is an extremest and I don't believe his world would be better than this one. There's genuine need for application developers to gain access to extremely secure end-to-end attestation of the environment their apps are running in. Its a rare need, but it does exist. There's also genuine need for some consumers to opt-in to a strict security regime. Google's change forces this draconian, dishonorable regime on all application developers and on all users. Its a change that serves no one except their shareholders.

fsflover 1y ago
> but Stallman is an extremest No, he isn't, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45025116 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45025116

xbar 1y ago

It is right to highlight the fight for libre software that Stallman championed. The world would be a much, much worse place without Free Software. We own the obligation to keep the fight up. So many of us profit from it, and so many people depend on it.