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> "Decentralized means do it yourself" ... Not necessarily. Just one famous example; BitTorrent is decentralized but for most people it's just "run this app,

> "Decentralized means do it yourself" ... Not necessarily. Just one famous example; BitTorrent is decentralized but for most people it's just "run this app, download files". "Decentralized" just means "doesn't rely on a centralized service to accomplish a goal". As long as the application isn't too complex to install and use, most folks won't care one way or the other whether it's decentralized or not, as long as it accomplishes the goal they're looking to accomplish.

cramsession 1y ago
There has to be a payoff though. BitTorrent is actually pretty hard to get working correctly, track down the torrent files... people do it because it's the only way to get some content and a way to get content you'd otherwise have to pay for. With social media, there's not much reward and most people's friends already post for free on other networks. Not saying it's not worthwhile, but it's hard to extract this lesson from BitTorrent.
- blooalien 1y ago
  Yeah, for sure. Anything trying to be a social network in a properly peer-to-peer fashion would have to be as simple to use (or simpler) than existing social networks, and / or offer some genuinely unique and desirable feature(s) in order to attract any serious critical mass of users.
  - cramsession 1y ago
    Interestingly the original Napster was a pretty good social network! I really liked being able to browse through all of a user's shared files. We should bring something like that back.
    - dokyun 1y ago
      Soulseek has been around a while...
  - bit1993 1y ago
    "Anything trying to be a social network in a properly peer-to-peer fashion would have to be as simple to use..." In practice this issue arise something like this: A decentralized service is launched it is so decentralized the user has to store their own private keys. Later a centralized solution is launched where the user does not have to go through the trouble of storing the private keys, everything is managed for them... everyone joins the centralized service.
- l72 1y ago
  But it can also be specialized forums like https://startrek.website/ https://startrek.website/ which is hosted using Lemmy but you can use your federated login. It can help bring back indie forums and websites that aren’t controlled by Reddit or meta.
- s5300 1y ago
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bawolff 1y ago
Perhaps, but i feel like under this definition, bluesky and friends, dsspite all their talk, really does fit in the centralized camp.
- blooalien 1y ago
  > ... "under this definition, bluesky and friends, dsspite all their talk, really does fit in the centralized camp." In my mind, I put them somewhere in-between, leaning a tad more toward "centralized" because they still rely on an individual to host the service no matter how "federated" they are. Until they're truly peer-to-peer, there's still that aspect of centralization involved. We need something kinda like BitTorrent but for messaging / social connections.
  - rectang 1y ago
    Maybe Bluesky is analogous to Github, if the AT protocol truly does allow for migration away to an alternative? Although Git repositories are portable, PRs, issues, actions and such aren't — so even if the migration away from Bluesky is lossy the comparison seems apt.
deleted 1y ago
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cramsession 1y ago

There has to be a payoff though. BitTorrent is actually pretty hard to get working correctly, track down the torrent files... people do it because it's the only way to get some content and a way to get content you'd otherwise have to pay for. With social media, there's not much reward and most people's friends already post for free on other networks. Not saying it's not worthwhile, but it's hard to extract this lesson from BitTorrent.

blooalien 1y ago
Yeah, for sure. Anything trying to be a social network in a properly peer-to-peer fashion would have to be as simple to use (or simpler) than existing social networks, and / or offer some genuinely unique and desirable feature(s) in order to attract any serious critical mass of users.
- cramsession 1y ago
  Interestingly the original Napster was a pretty good social network! I really liked being able to browse through all of a user's shared files. We should bring something like that back.
  - dokyun 1y ago
    Soulseek has been around a while...
- bit1993 1y ago
  "Anything trying to be a social network in a properly peer-to-peer fashion would have to be as simple to use..." In practice this issue arise something like this: A decentralized service is launched it is so decentralized the user has to store their own private keys. Later a centralized solution is launched where the user does not have to go through the trouble of storing the private keys, everything is managed for them... everyone joins the centralized service.
l72 1y ago
But it can also be specialized forums like https://startrek.website/ https://startrek.website/ which is hosted using Lemmy but you can use your federated login. It can help bring back indie forums and websites that aren’t controlled by Reddit or meta.
s5300 1y ago
[dead]

bawolff 1y ago

Perhaps, but i feel like under this definition, bluesky and friends, dsspite all their talk, really does fit in the centralized camp.

blooalien 1y ago
> ... "under this definition, bluesky and friends, dsspite all their talk, really does fit in the centralized camp." In my mind, I put them somewhere in-between, leaning a tad more toward "centralized" because they still rely on an individual to host the service no matter how "federated" they are. Until they're truly peer-to-peer, there's still that aspect of centralization involved. We need something kinda like BitTorrent but for messaging / social connections.
- rectang 1y ago
  Maybe Bluesky is analogous to Github, if the AT protocol truly does allow for migration away to an alternative? Although Git repositories are portable, PRs, issues, actions and such aren't — so even if the migration away from Bluesky is lossy the comparison seems apt.

deleted 1y ago

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