5 ms·

I'm curious what you think the alternative is, because Apple is definitely a lot worse, and we all know they're very much a duopoly. BTW, all the GrapheneOS, e

I'm curious what you think the alternative is, because Apple is definitely a lot worse, and we all know they're very much a duopoly. BTW, all the GrapheneOS, etc. are still Android phones.

seviu 1y ago
I had a Jolla phone on my hands the other day and I must admit this… SailfishOS is pretty nice I might get one next
- BoredPositron 1y ago
  It's really nice when you first use it but if you have to use it as a daily driver it's pure pain. Rather go for graphene.
- storus 1y ago
  Buy Xperia 10 III while you still can. It's the best SailfishOS phone at the moment.
  - panny 1y ago
    I have an Xperia 10 III, but it's running AOSP I built myself. https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-devices https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-d... Basically none of this new restriction will bother me, since I don't run anything but stock AOSP and get all my apps from f-droid repos.
    - pabs3 1y ago
      Eventually you will need a new phone and by then probably all phones will be locked down.
  - seviu 1y ago
    Hunting for one rn Thanks for the heads up
logicchains 1y ago
The alternative is just Apple; if Google loses enough users they might reconsider. Essentially the only real advantage Android had over Apple was being a more free platform/ecosystem; if they're going to do away with that, then they should be shown that this means they'll lose a lot of users.
- thyristan 1y ago
  Even with this change, Android is still more free than iOS by far.
anonym29 1y ago
GrapheneOS is a beautiful stop-gap, but there are real bona-fide Linux smartphones out there. To be clear, there are not many, the hardware often isn't great, the software often isn't great. PinePhone and Librem come to mind.
- eraviloi 1y ago
  https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precursor/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precurso... This is the most secure phone that has been made recently.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - duskwuff 1y ago
    Precursor is neat, but it isn't a phone.
    - ebcode 1y ago
      Pretty sure Bunnie named it “precursor” because the plan is to make the actual phone (with a cellular modem) next. If I had the cash to support him and buy a Precursor I would.
  - anonym29 1y ago
    Neat concept. For anyone else failing to resolve DNS for that domain: https://archive.is/q7w0x https://archive.is/q7w0x
  - int_19h 1y ago
    Per their spec sheet it doesn't have cellular connectivity, so it's not actually a phone. And if what you want is a PDA that runs Linux, there are many options, e.g. https://www.clockworkpi.com/home-uconsole https://www.clockworkpi.com/home-uconsole.
- RedComet 1y ago
  Cell carriers will just start requiring the attestation as well. And eventually, even an internet connection will - wifi routers will have to attest to ISP equipment, etc. The final phase is "AI" monitoring everything you do on your devices. Eventually it won't just be passive, either, but likely active: able to change books you read and audio you listen to on-the-fly without your consent. It will be argued that this ok because the program is "objective".
goda90 1y ago
I'm curious if GrapheneOS or other custom Android builds would be able to avoid these restrictions reasonably. Obviously this is going to impact the supply of apps, since the market share of custom Android is smaller than even the market share of people willing to sideload or use an alternative store on a mainstream Android phone. Many developers might quit the game.
- mysteria 1y ago
  The problem with custom ROMs is that many government, banking, and similar apps don't run on them without workarounds. Some of those apps also consider this as a TOS violation as well.
  - thrtythreeforty 1y ago
    Then I won't run those apps. Seriously. I know not everyone has this option, but it's been my experience that a lot of processes do in fact have workarounds when you show them the cryptic error their poorly behaved app throws.
  - Zak 1y ago
    When Microsoft first proposed a remote attestation scheme for PCs under the name Palladium, it was widely seen as a nightmare scenario. Even the mainstream press was critical[0]. There was barely a whimper when Google introduced Safetynet a decade later. It wasn't OK in 2003. It wasn't OK in 2014. It isn't OK now. I'm just not sure what anybody can do about it. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/30/business/technology-a-safer-system-for-home-pc-s-feels-like-jail-to-some-critics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/30/business/technology-a-saf...
    - IlikeKitties 1y ago
      [flagged]
  - afandian 1y ago
    I don’t use any utility apps (identity, banking, services etc) on my phone and stick to the desktop web. And don’t use services that do require me to have a Google or apple account and phone. (Spoiler: I do) I hope my tiny datapoint shows up in some aggregated stats somewhere. It’s use-it-or-lose-it.

I'm curious what you think the alternative is, because Apple is definitely a lot worse, and we all know they're very much a duopoly. BTW, all the GrapheneOS, etc. are still Android phones.

seviu 1y ago

I had a Jolla phone on my hands the other day and I must admit this… SailfishOS is pretty nice I might get one next

BoredPositron 1y ago
It's really nice when you first use it but if you have to use it as a daily driver it's pure pain. Rather go for graphene.
storus 1y ago
Buy Xperia 10 III while you still can. It's the best SailfishOS phone at the moment.
- panny 1y ago
  I have an Xperia 10 III, but it's running AOSP I built myself. https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-devices https://developer.sony.com/open-source/aosp-on-xperia-open-d... Basically none of this new restriction will bother me, since I don't run anything but stock AOSP and get all my apps from f-droid repos.
  - pabs3 1y ago
    Eventually you will need a new phone and by then probably all phones will be locked down.
- seviu 1y ago
  Hunting for one rn Thanks for the heads up

logicchains 1y ago

The alternative is just Apple; if Google loses enough users they might reconsider. Essentially the only real advantage Android had over Apple was being a more free platform/ecosystem; if they're going to do away with that, then they should be shown that this means they'll lose a lot of users.

thyristan 1y ago
Even with this change, Android is still more free than iOS by far.

anonym29 1y ago

GrapheneOS is a beautiful stop-gap, but there are real bona-fide Linux smartphones out there. To be clear, there are not many, the hardware often isn't great, the software often isn't great. PinePhone and Librem come to mind.

eraviloi 1y ago
https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precursor/ https://www.bunniestudios.com/blog/2020/introducing-precurso... This is the most secure phone that has been made recently.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- duskwuff 1y ago
  Precursor is neat, but it isn't a phone.
  - ebcode 1y ago
    Pretty sure Bunnie named it “precursor” because the plan is to make the actual phone (with a cellular modem) next. If I had the cash to support him and buy a Precursor I would.
- anonym29 1y ago
  Neat concept. For anyone else failing to resolve DNS for that domain: https://archive.is/q7w0x https://archive.is/q7w0x
- int_19h 1y ago
  Per their spec sheet it doesn't have cellular connectivity, so it's not actually a phone. And if what you want is a PDA that runs Linux, there are many options, e.g. https://www.clockworkpi.com/home-uconsole https://www.clockworkpi.com/home-uconsole.
RedComet 1y ago
Cell carriers will just start requiring the attestation as well. And eventually, even an internet connection will - wifi routers will have to attest to ISP equipment, etc. The final phase is "AI" monitoring everything you do on your devices. Eventually it won't just be passive, either, but likely active: able to change books you read and audio you listen to on-the-fly without your consent. It will be argued that this ok because the program is "objective".

goda90 1y ago

I'm curious if GrapheneOS or other custom Android builds would be able to avoid these restrictions reasonably. Obviously this is going to impact the supply of apps, since the market share of custom Android is smaller than even the market share of people willing to sideload or use an alternative store on a mainstream Android phone. Many developers might quit the game.

mysteria 1y ago
The problem with custom ROMs is that many government, banking, and similar apps don't run on them without workarounds. Some of those apps also consider this as a TOS violation as well.
- thrtythreeforty 1y ago
  Then I won't run those apps. Seriously. I know not everyone has this option, but it's been my experience that a lot of processes do in fact have workarounds when you show them the cryptic error their poorly behaved app throws.
- Zak 1y ago
  When Microsoft first proposed a remote attestation scheme for PCs under the name Palladium, it was widely seen as a nightmare scenario. Even the mainstream press was critical[0]. There was barely a whimper when Google introduced Safetynet a decade later. It wasn't OK in 2003. It wasn't OK in 2014. It isn't OK now. I'm just not sure what anybody can do about it. [0] https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/30/business/technology-a-safer-system-for-home-pc-s-feels-like-jail-to-some-critics.html https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/30/business/technology-a-saf...
  - IlikeKitties 1y ago
    [flagged]
- afandian 1y ago
  I don’t use any utility apps (identity, banking, services etc) on my phone and stick to the desktop web. And don’t use services that do require me to have a Google or apple account and phone. (Spoiler: I do) I hope my tiny datapoint shows up in some aggregated stats somewhere. It’s use-it-or-lose-it.