6 ms·

I was largely disappointed. The subject matter was special but the execution was over the top. Every time I was starting to get drawn in, there would be another

I was largely disappointed. The subject matter was special but the execution was over the top. Every time I was starting to get drawn in, there would be another affair, car crash, exploding lorry or something else just as forced. I can’t even remember the number of times it felt like they’d “jumped the shark” in even just the first season alone. There really wasn’t any need for half the dumb shit they did in that show. It didn’t add to the drama, it just made the whole thing feel completely fake. Which is impressive considering they’re writing largely about real world computing history. And don’t get me started on the characters themselves. I think I liked maybe half the cast. The others made me cringe every time they were on screen. It’s such a pity because they could have just as successful show if they refined it a little.

aspenmayer 1y ago
This complaint largely lands on the same points as the ones against Mr. Robot, and it has some merit, but the shows are made for cable TV audiences, so they're a bit more niche than broadcast shows, but they're mass market vehicles. They're nearly pushing a rope to make this content entertaining at all. If people cared, they'd already know the history and the social implications of the technology, as well as the personalities involved. These kinds of shows are meant to bring more folks into the industry and help folks see the humanity in each other and in themselves if they're in it. Most folks don't watch tv for anything but storylines and personalities, so historical or current relevance in entertainment is something I'll take where and when I can get it. What are some tech shows that you like, or dramas, for context?
- hnlmorg 1y ago
  I’m not suggesting the show should be factually accurate. I’m saying it doesn’t need pyrotechnics to be engaging. Mr Robot was a different beast because that was literally about criminal and hacker culture. So you’d expect a little action in that regard. To put it another way: you have shows that have strong enough writers where they don’t need gimmicks to keep your attention. And you have shows that are intentionally about the gimmicks. Then you have shows that aren’t about the gimmicks but the writers don’t have enough confidence in their work to avoid putting them in anyway. Shows like The West Wing, House of Cards etc aren’t about gimmicks and don’t need them. Shows like Stargate are about the gimmicks. And that’s ok too because you know it’s meant to be silly drama. But shows like HCF feel like they should be executed like HoCs, yet they’re written like Mr Robot, Stargate, etc. So it’s very jarring to watch every time another gimmick gets thrown in. Maybe I expected too much from that show? But it just felt like they didn’t have any confidence in people’s attention spans.
  - aspenmayer 1y ago
    > To put it another way: you have shows that have strong enough writers where they don’t need gimmicks to keep your attention. And you have shows that are intentionally about the gimmicks. Then you have shows that aren’t about the gimmicks but the writers don’t have enough confidence in their work to avoid putting them in anyway. Can you elaborate a bit about the gimmick(s) in Halt and Catch Fire? I think it's a drama, so there are human concerns and interactions, but that's like, what tv shows are? I don't know what you mean specifically. > Shows like The West Wing, House of Cards etc aren’t about gimmicks and don’t need them. The West Wing is statist propaganda for liberals. House of Cards is statist propaganda for neocons. > Shows like Mr Robot are about the gimmicks. And that’s ok too because you know it’s meant to be silly drama. I actually really appreciate that every hack shown on Mr. Robot had a real world POC and used actually existing tools and techniques. The storyline is hokum and gives hackers a bad name, but black hats are kinda supposed to have a bad name. Elliot is kinda gray hat, but he definitely violated CFAA multiple times and would probably be dead or in jail irl.
    - hnlmorg 1y ago
      By “gimmicks” (poor choice of word on my part but it was late and I was tired) I mean unnecessary drama that isn’t there to further the plot. It’s just there to offer episodic cliffhangers. So much of the “drama” in that show was completely redundant and over the top too. Things like setting the truck alight for no reason other than “I’m so emo”. Affairs that are talked about for one episode then forgotten about. Suicides that didn’t touch on mental illness and instead focused on an open source (you could have done that without the death) and thus that death felt completely redundant, mishandled, and there just for another cliffhanger. I get the need to make things exciting. But the drama didn’t feel earned. It felt shoehorned because some executive was worried people might get bored about a show which uses the computer industry as a backdrop.
      - aspenmayer 1y ago
        I think I would agree with you that it’s a dramatic show, and since these are characters, they tried to smash too much together into a supergroup of larger than life achievers with egos to match. I think you’re right that they did try to juice the drama a bit more than was believable in a few cases, but it was meant to show the full gamut of the tech industry and associated scenes, and it kind of felt strained or forced at times. I wouldn’t really call it a gimmick either, but perhaps that is the best word for their reach exceeding their grasp. It’s a kind of myth making, I suppose. Folks want to feel like their own lives are meaningful and exciting, and so they seek out content that is familiar and validates their life choices. Lots of folks in the tech industry are passionate. Others want to want things, but their get up and go got up and went. Halt and Catch Fire is a kind of wish fulfillment for tech folks, but there aren’t unqualified happy endings in the show, so the successes of the characters do feel largely earned by them, even if the dramatic hurdles do seem somewhat overblown or unrealistic. I’ve known enough folks in the industry to see all kinds, from very stable geniuses to shameless sycophants. Most are just regular people, but they rarely make for good television, so regular folks are the side characters or spouses. The viewers are here for drama, not realism.
bananaboy 1y ago
I 100% agree. I couldn’t finish it and bailed during the first season. It was all just so over the top! I thought Micro Men was way better executed as a comparison point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Men https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Men
- kennywinker 1y ago
  Completely different show after season 1, I almost bailed at the end of s01 too. But also, different strokes for different folks :)
  - bananaboy 1y ago
    Really! Interesting. How was it different?
    - protocolture 1y ago
      Shifts from looking like compaq, to early internet stuff, from memory.
      - Moto7451 1y ago
        Just to +1 this and then add some more color, the show doesn’t try to be a Pirates of Silicon Valley where they cover a single specific company/set of events but instead they compress the entirety of the 80s and 90s key events into their couple of seasons. It’s fun so long as you don’t mind.
        bananaboy 1y ago
        Ah right I did know that much about then following seasons. I thought the previous poster meant different in that the characters etc and over the top-ness was different but from my understanding of reading the synopsis it’s still basically the same characters and storytelling style so I think I’ll probably have the same problem with it heh. But I do love historical stuff like this even when fictionalised so maybe I should power through it.
themanmaran 1y ago
I'm glad to see I'm not alone here! Was really excited about it, and tried pretty hard to make it through the first season but couldn't make it. It just had too much of that early 2000's cable TV style drama. Which I understand is required since it was on network tv. I honestly think if it was made again today as a netflix/prime series it would be a lot better.
vunderba 1y ago
IMHO it felt like the show was (understandably) targeting a demograph more interested in the drama / relationships of the characters. Since my expectations were different, I could never get into HCF. As far as tech driven shows are concerned, Silicon Valley and IT Crowd are personal favorites but they're really more comedies.
- hnlmorg 1y ago
  I wouldn’t have minded if it were about relationships with tech as a backdrop but I don’t think the writers did a good job fleshing out those relationships either. Most of the time it felt very one dimensional. Largely because the characters were one dimensional. Ironically, the supporting cast felt more “human” than the leads. Agreed with your point about SV and IT Crowd. There does seem to be a real lack of drama using tech as the backdrop which isn’t either a comedy nor non-fiction.
roarcher 1y ago
I believe some TV executive thought "Mad Men for the tech industry" would be a good cash cow. It even had its own Don Draper character, if a very poorly executed one.

aspenmayer 1y ago

This complaint largely lands on the same points as the ones against Mr. Robot, and it has some merit, but the shows are made for cable TV audiences, so they're a bit more niche than broadcast shows, but they're mass market vehicles. They're nearly pushing a rope to make this content entertaining at all. If people cared, they'd already know the history and the social implications of the technology, as well as the personalities involved. These kinds of shows are meant to bring more folks into the industry and help folks see the humanity in each other and in themselves if they're in it. Most folks don't watch tv for anything but storylines and personalities, so historical or current relevance in entertainment is something I'll take where and when I can get it. What are some tech shows that you like, or dramas, for context?

hnlmorg 1y ago
I’m not suggesting the show should be factually accurate. I’m saying it doesn’t need pyrotechnics to be engaging. Mr Robot was a different beast because that was literally about criminal and hacker culture. So you’d expect a little action in that regard. To put it another way: you have shows that have strong enough writers where they don’t need gimmicks to keep your attention. And you have shows that are intentionally about the gimmicks. Then you have shows that aren’t about the gimmicks but the writers don’t have enough confidence in their work to avoid putting them in anyway. Shows like The West Wing, House of Cards etc aren’t about gimmicks and don’t need them. Shows like Stargate are about the gimmicks. And that’s ok too because you know it’s meant to be silly drama. But shows like HCF feel like they should be executed like HoCs, yet they’re written like Mr Robot, Stargate, etc. So it’s very jarring to watch every time another gimmick gets thrown in. Maybe I expected too much from that show? But it just felt like they didn’t have any confidence in people’s attention spans.
- aspenmayer 1y ago
  > To put it another way: you have shows that have strong enough writers where they don’t need gimmicks to keep your attention. And you have shows that are intentionally about the gimmicks. Then you have shows that aren’t about the gimmicks but the writers don’t have enough confidence in their work to avoid putting them in anyway. Can you elaborate a bit about the gimmick(s) in Halt and Catch Fire? I think it's a drama, so there are human concerns and interactions, but that's like, what tv shows are? I don't know what you mean specifically. > Shows like The West Wing, House of Cards etc aren’t about gimmicks and don’t need them. The West Wing is statist propaganda for liberals. House of Cards is statist propaganda for neocons. > Shows like Mr Robot are about the gimmicks. And that’s ok too because you know it’s meant to be silly drama. I actually really appreciate that every hack shown on Mr. Robot had a real world POC and used actually existing tools and techniques. The storyline is hokum and gives hackers a bad name, but black hats are kinda supposed to have a bad name. Elliot is kinda gray hat, but he definitely violated CFAA multiple times and would probably be dead or in jail irl.
  - hnlmorg 1y ago
    By “gimmicks” (poor choice of word on my part but it was late and I was tired) I mean unnecessary drama that isn’t there to further the plot. It’s just there to offer episodic cliffhangers. So much of the “drama” in that show was completely redundant and over the top too. Things like setting the truck alight for no reason other than “I’m so emo”. Affairs that are talked about for one episode then forgotten about. Suicides that didn’t touch on mental illness and instead focused on an open source (you could have done that without the death) and thus that death felt completely redundant, mishandled, and there just for another cliffhanger. I get the need to make things exciting. But the drama didn’t feel earned. It felt shoehorned because some executive was worried people might get bored about a show which uses the computer industry as a backdrop.
    - aspenmayer 1y ago
      I think I would agree with you that it’s a dramatic show, and since these are characters, they tried to smash too much together into a supergroup of larger than life achievers with egos to match. I think you’re right that they did try to juice the drama a bit more than was believable in a few cases, but it was meant to show the full gamut of the tech industry and associated scenes, and it kind of felt strained or forced at times. I wouldn’t really call it a gimmick either, but perhaps that is the best word for their reach exceeding their grasp. It’s a kind of myth making, I suppose. Folks want to feel like their own lives are meaningful and exciting, and so they seek out content that is familiar and validates their life choices. Lots of folks in the tech industry are passionate. Others want to want things, but their get up and go got up and went. Halt and Catch Fire is a kind of wish fulfillment for tech folks, but there aren’t unqualified happy endings in the show, so the successes of the characters do feel largely earned by them, even if the dramatic hurdles do seem somewhat overblown or unrealistic. I’ve known enough folks in the industry to see all kinds, from very stable geniuses to shameless sycophants. Most are just regular people, but they rarely make for good television, so regular folks are the side characters or spouses. The viewers are here for drama, not realism.

bananaboy 1y ago

I 100% agree. I couldn’t finish it and bailed during the first season. It was all just so over the top! I thought Micro Men was way better executed as a comparison point https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Men https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_Men

kennywinker 1y ago
Completely different show after season 1, I almost bailed at the end of s01 too. But also, different strokes for different folks :)
- bananaboy 1y ago
  Really! Interesting. How was it different?
  - protocolture 1y ago
    Shifts from looking like compaq, to early internet stuff, from memory.
    - Moto7451 1y ago
      Just to +1 this and then add some more color, the show doesn’t try to be a Pirates of Silicon Valley where they cover a single specific company/set of events but instead they compress the entirety of the 80s and 90s key events into their couple of seasons. It’s fun so long as you don’t mind.
      - bananaboy 1y ago
        Ah right I did know that much about then following seasons. I thought the previous poster meant different in that the characters etc and over the top-ness was different but from my understanding of reading the synopsis it’s still basically the same characters and storytelling style so I think I’ll probably have the same problem with it heh. But I do love historical stuff like this even when fictionalised so maybe I should power through it.

themanmaran 1y ago

I'm glad to see I'm not alone here! Was really excited about it, and tried pretty hard to make it through the first season but couldn't make it. It just had too much of that early 2000's cable TV style drama. Which I understand is required since it was on network tv. I honestly think if it was made again today as a netflix/prime series it would be a lot better.

vunderba 1y ago

IMHO it felt like the show was (understandably) targeting a demograph more interested in the drama / relationships of the characters. Since my expectations were different, I could never get into HCF. As far as tech driven shows are concerned, Silicon Valley and IT Crowd are personal favorites but they're really more comedies.

hnlmorg 1y ago
I wouldn’t have minded if it were about relationships with tech as a backdrop but I don’t think the writers did a good job fleshing out those relationships either. Most of the time it felt very one dimensional. Largely because the characters were one dimensional. Ironically, the supporting cast felt more “human” than the leads. Agreed with your point about SV and IT Crowd. There does seem to be a real lack of drama using tech as the backdrop which isn’t either a comedy nor non-fiction.

roarcher 1y ago

I believe some TV executive thought "Mad Men for the tech industry" would be a good cash cow. It even had its own Don Draper character, if a very poorly executed one.