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Interesting. But not really the history of electronic tubes. Geissler tubes are gas-discharge tubes. There's a whole family of those - neon lamps, gas-discharg

Interesting. But not really the history of electronic tubes. Geissler tubes are gas-discharge tubes. There's a whole family of those - neon lamps, gas-discharge rectifiers, thyatrons, ignitrons, krytrons, etc. Those were the first electronic devices with significant power-handling capacity. All have some gas inside that can be ionized. They usually don't have a heated filament, and don't work by thermionic emission. They're definitely the ancestors of fluorescent light bulbs. As power devices, they were used in specialty devices such as lamp dimmers (rarely, but I've seen one), motor controllers (rarely, but done during WWII), and, of all things, centrally controlled school clocks (IBM/Simplex). Niche. Then there were vacuum tubes. Their genealogy starts with the Edison Effect (put an extra element in a vacuum light bulb, and there's some current flow), and go on to Fleming's diode and then De Forest's triode. At last, gain! These were all low-power devices, but they could amplify small signals. They made radio, TV, and computers go before semiconductors. Gas-discharge tubes and vacuum tubes aren't that closely related. They work on different physical principles. During the tube era, they often came in the same tube packages, so people think they're similar.

paulkrush 1y ago
OK, I get it now: "The article conflates two parallel branches with shared glass/vacuum know-how when it starts talking about diodes."
- adrian_b 1y ago
  The article is right that the vacuum tubes, whose first application were the Edison lighting bulbs, then the Fleming diodes, which evolved directly from the incandescent lighting bulbs, are descendants of the Geissler tubes. During the evolution of the Geissler tubes, the techniques of making efficient vacuum pumps and of sealing well the glass tubes were developed. Only when the pumps and the glass tubes had become good enough, it became possible to experiment with the first vacuum tubes, by omitting the filling of the tubes with low-pressure gas. Without the decades of playing with Geissler tubes there would have never been any incentive to develop the technologies without which making vacuum tubes would have been impossible. Therefore there is no doubt that what the article says is correct, i.e. that the vacuum tubes are descendants of the low-pressure gas tubes, which were initially known as Geissler tubes. So the vacuum tubes are a lateral branch of the development of the low-pressure gas tubes. After splitting, both branches have continued to evolve in parallel until they both have been replaced in most of their applications by semiconductor devices. While vacuum tubes were better known by the general public, because they were present in things like radio receivers or TV sets, which many people owned, in industrial applications gas tubes have always had a similar importance to vacuum tubes. Even the first electronic counter, which can be considered the ancestor of all electronic computers, has been made with gas tubes, not with vacuum tubes. (The first electronic counters were made to count the pulses from detectors of nuclear or cosmic radiation, for which the existing electro-mechanical counters were too slow. The circuits developed for this application were the basis for the development during WWII of the digital electronic circuits used in the first electronic computers.)
kevin_thibedeau 1y ago
Neon indicator bulbs are technically Geissler tubes.
- adrian_b 1y ago
  Approximately. The Geissler tubes used for lighting, including those filled with neon, use the light of the so called "positive column" of gas, which emits light from almost the entire length of the tube, regardless of its form, which also allows to curve the tube, e.g. in the form of a letter. The neon indicator bulbs use the so-called "negative light", which is emitted from a small region around the metallic cathode, while the rest of the volume of the bulb emits no light. Because the light-emitting zone is around the cathode, shaping the metallic cathode, e.g. in the form of a digit, will give the same form to the light. When electric discharges are done in a tube with low-pressure gas, there may be various parts of the tube that emit light, depending on the pressure of the gas, on the applied voltage and on the dimensions and form of the tube and of the electrodes. While the emitted light can also have other aspects, only 2 variants are used in practical applications, the positive column light for general lighting and the negative cathode light for indicator or display applications.
kragen 1y ago
Gas-discharge tubes are kind of niche today, and vacuum tubes have been more important since at least the 01920s, but in the 01960s, gas tubes weren't that niche; people used them for signal switching, voltage regulation, light detection, breakover elements for relaxation oscillators, digital displays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube, counters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron, and other memory devices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp#Applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp#Applications has a bit of a catalog of uses, which references this actual catalog of devices from 01966 https://archive.org/details/ge-glow-lamp-manual-1966/page/n1/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/ge-glow-lamp-manual-1966/page/n1... and Miller's 01969 book https://www.tiffe.de/roehren/neon.pdf https://www.tiffe.de/roehren/neon.pdf. Geiger tubes are still used for detecting ionizing radiation, although we have other alternatives today. And of course most forms of electrical lighting have been gas discharge lamps since Davy invented the first commercial electric light around 01809: the open-air arc lamp, the neon lamp or tube, the fluorescent tube, the mercury light, low-pressure and high-pressure sodium-vapor lamps, strobe lights, and continuous high-intensity discharge xenon lamps. The 01951 book I learned digital logic from, by Dennis Ritchie's father and two of his Bell Labs colleagues, has a chapter on switching with "electron tubes, both vacuum and gas-filled," and "semi-conductors": https://archive.org/details/TheDesignOfSwitchingCircuits/page/n225/mode/2up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/TheDesignOfSwitchingCircuits/pag.... (Fluorescent light bulbs, by the way, do have a heated filament, and do work by thermionic emission, though cold-cathode fluorescents like those used in old LCDs don't.) The respective niches of vacuum tubes and gas switching tubes could be very crudely summarized as high speed and high reliability. Even primitive vacuum tubes had switching times in the microseconds, and by WWII it was below a nanosecond, like transistors, but they relied on hot filaments that eventually burned out. Cold-cathode gas tubes, by contrast, essentially never break, but they take close to a millisecond for the gas to deionize so they can stop conducting. They can switch higher-frequency signals, but they can't switch on and off faster than that. Keister, Ritchie, and Washburn say of hot-cathode gas tubes: > The speed of response of the tube is contingent primarily on the ionization and de-ionization times of the tube. Depending upon the gas, the ionization time ranges from a fraction of a microsecond to several microseconds; the de-ionization time is ordinarily of the order of a hundred to a thousand microseconds, though lower values have been achieved. The tube, then, can respond very rapidly to input signals applied to operate the tube, but considerably more time must be allowed for extinguishing the tube. When I first read this when I was eight, "a hundred to a thousand microseconds" presumably sounded incredibly fast, but of course it's painfully slow for computation. Of cold-cathode tubes, they say: > Moreover, since the cold-cathode tube has no filament, no standby current is consumed. The speed of response, though somewhat less than that of the hot-cathode gas tube, is sufficient for most applications. The ionization time depends upon the time necessary to transfer the discharge from the starter gap to the main gap, and it is generally less than a hundred microseconds. Main gap de-ionization times are of the order of one to ten milliseconds. You might hope that this would have improved since 01951, but, as far as I can tell, it never did. They continue: > Because of its suitability to switching circuits, the electron tube circuit examples contained in the remainder of the chapter are, in the majority of cases, based on the cold cathode-tube. (They do, however, include a few vacuum-tube circuits.) The rest of the book is about relays. Vacuum tubes and semi-conductors were, from their point of view, niche.

paulkrush 1y ago

OK, I get it now: "The article conflates two parallel branches with shared glass/vacuum know-how when it starts talking about diodes."

adrian_b 1y ago
The article is right that the vacuum tubes, whose first application were the Edison lighting bulbs, then the Fleming diodes, which evolved directly from the incandescent lighting bulbs, are descendants of the Geissler tubes. During the evolution of the Geissler tubes, the techniques of making efficient vacuum pumps and of sealing well the glass tubes were developed. Only when the pumps and the glass tubes had become good enough, it became possible to experiment with the first vacuum tubes, by omitting the filling of the tubes with low-pressure gas. Without the decades of playing with Geissler tubes there would have never been any incentive to develop the technologies without which making vacuum tubes would have been impossible. Therefore there is no doubt that what the article says is correct, i.e. that the vacuum tubes are descendants of the low-pressure gas tubes, which were initially known as Geissler tubes. So the vacuum tubes are a lateral branch of the development of the low-pressure gas tubes. After splitting, both branches have continued to evolve in parallel until they both have been replaced in most of their applications by semiconductor devices. While vacuum tubes were better known by the general public, because they were present in things like radio receivers or TV sets, which many people owned, in industrial applications gas tubes have always had a similar importance to vacuum tubes. Even the first electronic counter, which can be considered the ancestor of all electronic computers, has been made with gas tubes, not with vacuum tubes. (The first electronic counters were made to count the pulses from detectors of nuclear or cosmic radiation, for which the existing electro-mechanical counters were too slow. The circuits developed for this application were the basis for the development during WWII of the digital electronic circuits used in the first electronic computers.)

kevin_thibedeau 1y ago

Neon indicator bulbs are technically Geissler tubes.

adrian_b 1y ago
Approximately. The Geissler tubes used for lighting, including those filled with neon, use the light of the so called "positive column" of gas, which emits light from almost the entire length of the tube, regardless of its form, which also allows to curve the tube, e.g. in the form of a letter. The neon indicator bulbs use the so-called "negative light", which is emitted from a small region around the metallic cathode, while the rest of the volume of the bulb emits no light. Because the light-emitting zone is around the cathode, shaping the metallic cathode, e.g. in the form of a digit, will give the same form to the light. When electric discharges are done in a tube with low-pressure gas, there may be various parts of the tube that emit light, depending on the pressure of the gas, on the applied voltage and on the dimensions and form of the tube and of the electrodes. While the emitted light can also have other aspects, only 2 variants are used in practical applications, the positive column light for general lighting and the negative cathode light for indicator or display applications.

kragen 1y ago

Gas-discharge tubes are kind of niche today, and vacuum tubes have been more important since at least the 01920s, but in the 01960s, gas tubes weren't that niche; people used them for signal switching, voltage regulation, light detection, breakover elements for relaxation oscillators, digital displays https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixie_tube, counters https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dekatron, and other memory devices. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp#Applications https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neon_lamp#Applications has a bit of a catalog of uses, which references this actual catalog of devices from 01966 https://archive.org/details/ge-glow-lamp-manual-1966/page/n1/mode/2up https://archive.org/details/ge-glow-lamp-manual-1966/page/n1... and Miller's 01969 book https://www.tiffe.de/roehren/neon.pdf https://www.tiffe.de/roehren/neon.pdf. Geiger tubes are still used for detecting ionizing radiation, although we have other alternatives today. And of course most forms of electrical lighting have been gas discharge lamps since Davy invented the first commercial electric light around 01809: the open-air arc lamp, the neon lamp or tube, the fluorescent tube, the mercury light, low-pressure and high-pressure sodium-vapor lamps, strobe lights, and continuous high-intensity discharge xenon lamps. The 01951 book I learned digital logic from, by Dennis Ritchie's father and two of his Bell Labs colleagues, has a chapter on switching with "electron tubes, both vacuum and gas-filled," and "semi-conductors": https://archive.org/details/TheDesignOfSwitchingCircuits/page/n225/mode/2up?view=theater https://archive.org/details/TheDesignOfSwitchingCircuits/pag.... (Fluorescent light bulbs, by the way, do have a heated filament, and do work by thermionic emission, though cold-cathode fluorescents like those used in old LCDs don't.) The respective niches of vacuum tubes and gas switching tubes could be very crudely summarized as high speed and high reliability. Even primitive vacuum tubes had switching times in the microseconds, and by WWII it was below a nanosecond, like transistors, but they relied on hot filaments that eventually burned out. Cold-cathode gas tubes, by contrast, essentially never break, but they take close to a millisecond for the gas to deionize so they can stop conducting. They can switch higher-frequency signals, but they can't switch on and off faster than that. Keister, Ritchie, and Washburn say of hot-cathode gas tubes: > The speed of response of the tube is contingent primarily on the ionization and de-ionization times of the tube. Depending upon the gas, the ionization time ranges from a fraction of a microsecond to several microseconds; the de-ionization time is ordinarily of the order of a hundred to a thousand microseconds, though lower values have been achieved. The tube, then, can respond very rapidly to input signals applied to operate the tube, but considerably more time must be allowed for extinguishing the tube. When I first read this when I was eight, "a hundred to a thousand microseconds" presumably sounded incredibly fast, but of course it's painfully slow for computation. Of cold-cathode tubes, they say: > Moreover, since the cold-cathode tube has no filament, no standby current is consumed. The speed of response, though somewhat less than that of the hot-cathode gas tube, is sufficient for most applications. The ionization time depends upon the time necessary to transfer the discharge from the starter gap to the main gap, and it is generally less than a hundred microseconds. Main gap de-ionization times are of the order of one to ten milliseconds. You might hope that this would have improved since 01951, but, as far as I can tell, it never did. They continue: > Because of its suitability to switching circuits, the electron tube circuit examples contained in the remainder of the chapter are, in the majority of cases, based on the cold cathode-tube. (They do, however, include a few vacuum-tube circuits.) The rest of the book is about relays. Vacuum tubes and semi-conductors were, from their point of view, niche.