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“Horse and buggy”. How dramatic. If at least the US got in line with the rest of the world, we would be half-way there. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-

“Horse and buggy”. How dramatic. If at least the US got in line with the rest of the world, we would be half-way there. https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/co-emissions-per-capita The problem is not the 8 billion people, is the handful that have an disproportionate impact.

dingnuts 1y ago
[flagged]
ekianjo 1y ago
> If at least the US got in line with the rest of the world, we would be half-way there. China and India would like a word with you
- anonymars 1y ago
  Per-capita? But even so, in the future it'll be small consolation to think "nothing to be done, someone else was worse"
  - ekianjo 1y ago
    Why consider per Capita? The climate does not care about arbitrary per Capita metrics, it cares about absolute volumes and India and China are the ones you need to tackle.
    - anonymars 1y ago
      Why consider per country? The climate doesn't care about arbitrary lines on a map either
      - lazide 1y ago
        To actually answer both of your rhetorical questions. “Why per capita?” - many people have an innate desire for ‘fairness’ and assigning some degree of accountability (or expectation of impact of mitigating changes) based 1-1 per person, appeals to that. It also bypasses thinking about the larger overall problem, while giving a degree of apparent control to them as individuals. And let’s them blame other individual for the problem if it doesn’t get fixed. “Why per country?” - because anyone trying to actually accomplish anything realizes that issues of this scale are not really resolvable through individuals making decisions against their incentives, but at best national policy making - but really international treaties to change incentives. The atmosphere is the largest ‘commons’ we have, except perhaps the oceans. Perhaps not even then. Since every country has an incentive to avoid actual accountability for their own actions, while pawning off the consequences onto someone else, and managing that type of situation typically requires an overarching authority. And no sovereign (for good reasons!) wants to bend the knee to a foreign power. And any international authority is necessarily going to be foreign to everyone to some extent. So attempting to assign accountability at the coarsest level of sovereign control on that front feels most actionable. Really I expect things will get much worse until individual countries start doing emergency geo-engineering to attempt to stop widespread famine, out of control flooding, or lethal heat waves, making it worse for some, better for others but rather randomly. I’m honestly surprised India hasn’t already started. I’m guessing within the next decade or two. This will lead to other countries starting wars with them to attempt to control such behavior, until some sort of international accords can be worked out - where the rich countries will prosper, and the poor countries will be fucked. As usual. But people call me an Optimist. You don’t want to hear what I say when I’m being cynical.
cityofdelusion 1y ago
Disingenuous. Here is the correct chart to link if you want to assert emissions by country: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...
- griffzhowl 1y ago
  How does that make sense? The US reduced their emissions by shifting production to China, and China gladly lapped it up (in massive amounts). It would be good to have a graph showing where the ultimate products of these emissions ended up.
  - tfourb 1y ago
    Ask and you shall receive: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 You will notice that the picture does not change radically if you include emissions from trade (which is what you were asking). Turns out while China expects a lot of stuff to the us, it doesn’t have that big of an impact on net emissions.
    - griffzhowl 1y ago
      Thanks, but what is it supposed to show? Looks like West outsourced their production to the East and this data just shows that?
      - anonymars 1y ago
        I took away from that link that per-capita emissions were 14 something for the US and 8 something for China
- manoDev 1y ago
  This graph isn’t telling the history you think it does… China’s population is 4x times the US, and still, total emissions are a little over 2x — and that’s ignoring the outsized impact from exported goods.

dingnuts 1y ago

[flagged]

ekianjo 1y ago

> If at least the US got in line with the rest of the world, we would be half-way there. China and India would like a word with you

anonymars 1y ago
Per-capita? But even so, in the future it'll be small consolation to think "nothing to be done, someone else was worse"
- ekianjo 1y ago
  Why consider per Capita? The climate does not care about arbitrary per Capita metrics, it cares about absolute volumes and India and China are the ones you need to tackle.
  - anonymars 1y ago
    Why consider per country? The climate doesn't care about arbitrary lines on a map either
    - lazide 1y ago
      To actually answer both of your rhetorical questions. “Why per capita?” - many people have an innate desire for ‘fairness’ and assigning some degree of accountability (or expectation of impact of mitigating changes) based 1-1 per person, appeals to that. It also bypasses thinking about the larger overall problem, while giving a degree of apparent control to them as individuals. And let’s them blame other individual for the problem if it doesn’t get fixed. “Why per country?” - because anyone trying to actually accomplish anything realizes that issues of this scale are not really resolvable through individuals making decisions against their incentives, but at best national policy making - but really international treaties to change incentives. The atmosphere is the largest ‘commons’ we have, except perhaps the oceans. Perhaps not even then. Since every country has an incentive to avoid actual accountability for their own actions, while pawning off the consequences onto someone else, and managing that type of situation typically requires an overarching authority. And no sovereign (for good reasons!) wants to bend the knee to a foreign power. And any international authority is necessarily going to be foreign to everyone to some extent. So attempting to assign accountability at the coarsest level of sovereign control on that front feels most actionable. Really I expect things will get much worse until individual countries start doing emergency geo-engineering to attempt to stop widespread famine, out of control flooding, or lethal heat waves, making it worse for some, better for others but rather randomly. I’m honestly surprised India hasn’t already started. I’m guessing within the next decade or two. This will lead to other countries starting wars with them to attempt to control such behavior, until some sort of international accords can be worked out - where the rich countries will prosper, and the poor countries will be fucked. As usual. But people call me an Optimist. You don’t want to hear what I say when I’m being cynical.

cityofdelusion 1y ago

Disingenuous. Here is the correct chart to link if you want to assert emissions by country: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-country https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/annual-co2-emissions-per-...

griffzhowl 1y ago
How does that make sense? The US reduced their emissions by shifting production to China, and China gladly lapped it up (in massive amounts). It would be good to have a graph showing where the ultimate products of these emissions ended up.
- tfourb 1y ago
  Ask and you shall receive: https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 https://ourworldindata.org/consumption-based-co2 You will notice that the picture does not change radically if you include emissions from trade (which is what you were asking). Turns out while China expects a lot of stuff to the us, it doesn’t have that big of an impact on net emissions.
  - griffzhowl 1y ago
    Thanks, but what is it supposed to show? Looks like West outsourced their production to the East and this data just shows that?
    - anonymars 1y ago
      I took away from that link that per-capita emissions were 14 something for the US and 8 something for China
manoDev 1y ago
This graph isn’t telling the history you think it does… China’s population is 4x times the US, and still, total emissions are a little over 2x — and that’s ignoring the outsized impact from exported goods.