6 ms·

Self-driving cars begin testing on NYC streets

28 points by pkaeding 1y ago

donkey_brains 1y ago
How did they train the AI to drive like an asshole?
- AshamedCaptain 1y ago
  No need, if you're the "security supervisor" who has to remotely take over any of these cars any time they inevitably crap themselves, by the end of the day you will drive like the best of NY's, or even more asshole than that.
- BoiledCabbage 1y ago
  By driving in the rest of the country.
Fricken 1y ago
Self driving car companies have been trying to get into NYC for a while now. It's a prestigious and sought after testing ground. The now defunct Cruise automation was in talks to test in NYC beginning in 2018. Cruise was welcomed by the governor but shut down by the Mayor's office, however not before acquiring a small garage and filling it with (maybe) a dozen robocars. Cruise kept the space open for a few years, presumably they did some mapping but mostly they were just twiddling their thumbs waiting for their permit to go through, and of course that never happened. Waymo has only been granted a limited testing permit, they still have a fight ahead of them before Robotaxis will be taking passengers in NYC. The Taxi and Limousine comission isn't going to take it lying down. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/gms-cruise-will-test-self-driving-cars-in-new-york-in-2018.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/gms-cruise-will-test-self-dr...
- muglug 1y ago
  I don’t think they’ve been desperate to launch here. NYC is the least car-friendly city in North America — for many it’s a badge of honour not to need a car, and the city just enacted congestion charging.
  - Fricken 1y ago
    The thing is there is any number of cities that would happily roll out the red carpet for a company like Waymo. Waymo wants the Big Apple, in spite of the political resistance. Otherwise I agree, I think robotaxis would most benefit people living in sprawling car dependant areas with poor transit, where driving is currently the only viable option for getting around.
Skates1616 1y ago
It will be interesting to see how well Waymo does with snow!
- Fricken 1y ago
  Waymo has been testing in winter conditions on closed courses for almost a decade, now. Presumably they wouldn't be making moves in a place like NYC if they didn't feel ready to take it to the streets.
- yuxt 1y ago
  when was the last time NYC had any snow?
gyomu 1y ago
Self-driving is one of the most interesting technologies of our times, from a legislative/social standpoint. Will every large city in the globe be filled with self driving cars in 2035, or will the situation be roughly identical to 2025? Honestly it feels like it could go either way - the last ten years have been such "one step forward, two steps sideways, one half step backwards" on every front - what the technology seems able to deliver on, what companies claim they can/will do, what regulators and the common people make of them, freak accidents that inevitably sway the popular opinion, etc. Personally I hope the technology matures and becomes ubiquitous in my lifetime (the sooner the better), because I hate driving (a few acquaintances have been in grisly accidents due to drunk drivers coming the other way) and I just want to get in a car at 10p with my backpack in tow, lie down, and wake up at 7a 600 miles away.
- JKCalhoun 1y ago
  To the degree that self-driving cars limit the adoption of public transportation, I am wholly against the technology.
  - madamelic 1y ago
    "Self driving cars" is better termed as "autonomous vehicles". There will be many modalities of autonomous vehicles and one of them will be buses. Autonomous vehicles will hopefully be a large boon to public transport or just transport for people in general as it should drive down prices along with making it more accessible as it can run 24/7/365
    - sumeno 1y ago
      The bus driver's salary is not the primary reason busses don't run 24/7
      - atoav 1y ago
        Yes, and in addition a drivers job isn't just to drive the vehicle, but to make the right call in a million different emergency situations, help people e.g. with a lack of mobility, etc. One could argue the business-as-usual-driving is actually the easy part to automate.
integrale 1y ago
> Driverless cars have clogged streets, obstructed emergency vehicles, and caused accidents, injuries and even deaths. They are a threat to pedestrians, cyclists and other drivers. A human rideshare driver would never do any of this
- general1726 1y ago
  It is more likely that human driver will get a clue from a blinking wee-woo car and moves aside.
madamelic 1y ago
I strongly believe that we are going to see many brands hit L4 and L5 before 2030. Multiple manufacturers seem to be circling on the same advancements and leaps, they all seem to be working with each other to get regulations in place for them to deploy their cars. I do believe we are about to see AV's version of "making reusable boosters being reused boring" moments with AVs where suddenly multiple companies are doing what others thought impossible years before. Even the much demeaned Tesla FSD is shockingly human-like and reliable on v13. The issue that Waymo specifically is going to have is scalability. Unlike other brands who have AV, Waymo doesn't have manufacturing capabilities in-house currently nor logistic or a generalizable model. I think Waymo is definitely ahead of the pack but time will tell if the brands who went slower will pass them up due to Waymo not having a financial reason to push to financial viability on any timeline shorter than "after Google runs out of money". If Waymo's plan is to have to map the entire US to be capable of driving in it, that's going to cost a lot of money and take a lot of time vs having cars that can roll out of the factory and drive straight to their assigned city unassisted.
- general1726 1y ago
  I don't believe that at all. The problem is same like replacing managers with AI - no accountability. Computer can't make decisions which may or may not kill people, because when that will happen, who is responsible for injury? Driver who is not driving? Developer of such system? Company who made the car? Company who created the self driving system?
  - madamelic 1y ago
    > Developer of such system? Company who made the car? Company who created the self driving system? Those would in many cases be the same company. And yes, the entity responsible for injury would be the car manufacturer, not the driver or riders. Taking on legal liability for the car is part of the 'qualifications' for L3. The specifics of what part of the system failed can be litigated if defendants (companies) need to be added to the case but in no case will the people inside of a vehicle designated higher than SAE L3 be held at fault for the accident.
Certhas 1y ago
As a European, US Unions seem absurd. I can't recall a Union in a country I lived in so blatantly agitating against technology (though I am sure you can find examples if you go looking). Maybe because they tend to be much much larger and represent broader slices of the economy, so they would advocate for retraining and education programs for the workers they represent. In the context of autonomous busses in public transport I didn't see any statements by Verdi, the German union covering this sector, that opposed them in principle. E.g. in Hamburg: "Wenn das autonome Fahren dazu führt, dass der ÖPNV ausgebaut und der Takt höher wird, dann ist das ein positives Zeichen in Richtung der von uns geforderten dringend notwendigen Verkehrswende. Wir erwarten aber von den Gesellschaftern unter der Federführung unseres ersten Bürgermeisters Dr. Peter Tschentscher, Finanzsenator Dr. Andreas Dressel und Verkehrssenator Dr. Anjes Tjarks, dass die Einführung von autonomen Verkehren unter Gewährung aller Mitbestimmungsrechte des Betriebsrates der Hamburger Hochbahn eingeführt wird – ganz im Sinne von Hamburg als Stadt der guten Arbeit mit Vorbildcharakter." --- If autonomous driving leads to an expansion of public transport and more frequent service, then that is a positive sign toward the urgently needed mobility transition that we are demanding. However, we expect the shareholders, under the leadership of our First Mayor Dr. Peter Tschentscher, Finance Senator Dr. Andreas Dressel, and Transport Senator Dr. Anjes Tjarks, to ensure that the introduction of autonomous transport services is carried out with full respect for the co-determination rights of the works council of Hamburger Hochbahn — fully in line with Hamburg’s role as a city of good work and a model for others.
- speedylight 1y ago
  Well people don’t want to lose their jobs and their livelihood to automation, it is a scary prospect for many in the states where most people live paycheck to paycheck and cost of living keeps rising.
amirhirsch 1y ago
I prefer the subway over the street traffic in NYC but often have a problem finding a bathroom. So startup idea: a Waymo but you poop in it. In San Francisco we just call it “a Waymo”
baby 1y ago
I saw a waymo yesterday and was wondering what it was doing here!
handwarmers 1y ago
I am excited about self driving cars, but self driving cars made by Google feels like a monkey's paw deal in the making.
reaperducer 1y ago
If they can make it there, they'll make it anywhere.
- tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
  "If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball"
Zigurd 1y ago
I predict one of the surprises, to some people anyway, is going to be that autonomous vehicles don't clog city streets. Uber's CEO recently remarked that Waymo vehicles complete more rides per day than 99% of human ride hailing drivers. The Waymo fleet in each of its service areas is remarkably small. It's an easy bet that a fully mature Waymo operation that competes toe to toe with human power ride hailing will need only a fraction of the number of human drivers in personal vehicles.
- djoldman 1y ago
  I wonder what the number of passenger-transporting miles driven per hour is. It seems likely that the 99% number is due to running more hours than a human per day.
ChrisArchitect 1y ago
Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44986949 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44986949

28 points by pkaeding 1y ago

donkey_brains 1y ago

How did they train the AI to drive like an asshole?

AshamedCaptain 1y ago
No need, if you're the "security supervisor" who has to remotely take over any of these cars any time they inevitably crap themselves, by the end of the day you will drive like the best of NY's, or even more asshole than that.
BoiledCabbage 1y ago
By driving in the rest of the country.

Fricken 1y ago

Self driving car companies have been trying to get into NYC for a while now. It's a prestigious and sought after testing ground. The now defunct Cruise automation was in talks to test in NYC beginning in 2018. Cruise was welcomed by the governor but shut down by the Mayor's office, however not before acquiring a small garage and filling it with (maybe) a dozen robocars. Cruise kept the space open for a few years, presumably they did some mapping but mostly they were just twiddling their thumbs waiting for their permit to go through, and of course that never happened. Waymo has only been granted a limited testing permit, they still have a fight ahead of them before Robotaxis will be taking passengers in NYC. The Taxi and Limousine comission isn't going to take it lying down. https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/gms-cruise-will-test-self-driving-cars-in-new-york-in-2018.html https://www.cnbc.com/2017/10/17/gms-cruise-will-test-self-dr...

muglug 1y ago
I don’t think they’ve been desperate to launch here. NYC is the least car-friendly city in North America — for many it’s a badge of honour not to need a car, and the city just enacted congestion charging.
- Fricken 1y ago
  The thing is there is any number of cities that would happily roll out the red carpet for a company like Waymo. Waymo wants the Big Apple, in spite of the political resistance. Otherwise I agree, I think robotaxis would most benefit people living in sprawling car dependant areas with poor transit, where driving is currently the only viable option for getting around.

Skates1616 1y ago

It will be interesting to see how well Waymo does with snow!

Fricken 1y ago
Waymo has been testing in winter conditions on closed courses for almost a decade, now. Presumably they wouldn't be making moves in a place like NYC if they didn't feel ready to take it to the streets.
yuxt 1y ago
when was the last time NYC had any snow?

gyomu 1y ago

Self-driving is one of the most interesting technologies of our times, from a legislative/social standpoint. Will every large city in the globe be filled with self driving cars in 2035, or will the situation be roughly identical to 2025? Honestly it feels like it could go either way - the last ten years have been such "one step forward, two steps sideways, one half step backwards" on every front - what the technology seems able to deliver on, what companies claim they can/will do, what regulators and the common people make of them, freak accidents that inevitably sway the popular opinion, etc. Personally I hope the technology matures and becomes ubiquitous in my lifetime (the sooner the better), because I hate driving (a few acquaintances have been in grisly accidents due to drunk drivers coming the other way) and I just want to get in a car at 10p with my backpack in tow, lie down, and wake up at 7a 600 miles away.

JKCalhoun 1y ago
To the degree that self-driving cars limit the adoption of public transportation, I am wholly against the technology.
- madamelic 1y ago
  "Self driving cars" is better termed as "autonomous vehicles". There will be many modalities of autonomous vehicles and one of them will be buses. Autonomous vehicles will hopefully be a large boon to public transport or just transport for people in general as it should drive down prices along with making it more accessible as it can run 24/7/365
  - sumeno 1y ago
    The bus driver's salary is not the primary reason busses don't run 24/7
    - atoav 1y ago
      Yes, and in addition a drivers job isn't just to drive the vehicle, but to make the right call in a million different emergency situations, help people e.g. with a lack of mobility, etc. One could argue the business-as-usual-driving is actually the easy part to automate.

integrale 1y ago

> Driverless cars have clogged streets, obstructed emergency vehicles, and caused accidents, injuries and even deaths. They are a threat to pedestrians, cyclists and other drivers. A human rideshare driver would never do any of this

general1726 1y ago
It is more likely that human driver will get a clue from a blinking wee-woo car and moves aside.

madamelic 1y ago

I strongly believe that we are going to see many brands hit L4 and L5 before 2030. Multiple manufacturers seem to be circling on the same advancements and leaps, they all seem to be working with each other to get regulations in place for them to deploy their cars. I do believe we are about to see AV's version of "making reusable boosters being reused boring" moments with AVs where suddenly multiple companies are doing what others thought impossible years before. Even the much demeaned Tesla FSD is shockingly human-like and reliable on v13. The issue that Waymo specifically is going to have is scalability. Unlike other brands who have AV, Waymo doesn't have manufacturing capabilities in-house currently nor logistic or a generalizable model. I think Waymo is definitely ahead of the pack but time will tell if the brands who went slower will pass them up due to Waymo not having a financial reason to push to financial viability on any timeline shorter than "after Google runs out of money". If Waymo's plan is to have to map the entire US to be capable of driving in it, that's going to cost a lot of money and take a lot of time vs having cars that can roll out of the factory and drive straight to their assigned city unassisted.

general1726 1y ago
I don't believe that at all. The problem is same like replacing managers with AI - no accountability. Computer can't make decisions which may or may not kill people, because when that will happen, who is responsible for injury? Driver who is not driving? Developer of such system? Company who made the car? Company who created the self driving system?
- madamelic 1y ago
  > Developer of such system? Company who made the car? Company who created the self driving system? Those would in many cases be the same company. And yes, the entity responsible for injury would be the car manufacturer, not the driver or riders. Taking on legal liability for the car is part of the 'qualifications' for L3. The specifics of what part of the system failed can be litigated if defendants (companies) need to be added to the case but in no case will the people inside of a vehicle designated higher than SAE L3 be held at fault for the accident.

Certhas 1y ago

As a European, US Unions seem absurd. I can't recall a Union in a country I lived in so blatantly agitating against technology (though I am sure you can find examples if you go looking). Maybe because they tend to be much much larger and represent broader slices of the economy, so they would advocate for retraining and education programs for the workers they represent. In the context of autonomous busses in public transport I didn't see any statements by Verdi, the German union covering this sector, that opposed them in principle. E.g. in Hamburg: "Wenn das autonome Fahren dazu führt, dass der ÖPNV ausgebaut und der Takt höher wird, dann ist das ein positives Zeichen in Richtung der von uns geforderten dringend notwendigen Verkehrswende. Wir erwarten aber von den Gesellschaftern unter der Federführung unseres ersten Bürgermeisters Dr. Peter Tschentscher, Finanzsenator Dr. Andreas Dressel und Verkehrssenator Dr. Anjes Tjarks, dass die Einführung von autonomen Verkehren unter Gewährung aller Mitbestimmungsrechte des Betriebsrates der Hamburger Hochbahn eingeführt wird – ganz im Sinne von Hamburg als Stadt der guten Arbeit mit Vorbildcharakter." --- If autonomous driving leads to an expansion of public transport and more frequent service, then that is a positive sign toward the urgently needed mobility transition that we are demanding. However, we expect the shareholders, under the leadership of our First Mayor Dr. Peter Tschentscher, Finance Senator Dr. Andreas Dressel, and Transport Senator Dr. Anjes Tjarks, to ensure that the introduction of autonomous transport services is carried out with full respect for the co-determination rights of the works council of Hamburger Hochbahn — fully in line with Hamburg’s role as a city of good work and a model for others.

speedylight 1y ago
Well people don’t want to lose their jobs and their livelihood to automation, it is a scary prospect for many in the states where most people live paycheck to paycheck and cost of living keeps rising.

amirhirsch 1y ago

I prefer the subway over the street traffic in NYC but often have a problem finding a bathroom. So startup idea: a Waymo but you poop in it. In San Francisco we just call it “a Waymo”

baby 1y ago

I saw a waymo yesterday and was wondering what it was doing here!

handwarmers 1y ago

I am excited about self driving cars, but self driving cars made by Google feels like a monkey's paw deal in the making.

reaperducer 1y ago

If they can make it there, they'll make it anywhere.

tjwebbnorfolk 1y ago
"If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball"

Zigurd 1y ago

I predict one of the surprises, to some people anyway, is going to be that autonomous vehicles don't clog city streets. Uber's CEO recently remarked that Waymo vehicles complete more rides per day than 99% of human ride hailing drivers. The Waymo fleet in each of its service areas is remarkably small. It's an easy bet that a fully mature Waymo operation that competes toe to toe with human power ride hailing will need only a fraction of the number of human drivers in personal vehicles.

djoldman 1y ago
I wonder what the number of passenger-transporting miles driven per hour is. It seems likely that the 99% number is due to running more hours than a human per day.

ChrisArchitect 1y ago

Earlier: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44986949 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44986949