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> As of the next version of Chrome, XSLT will be gated behind a flag. Citation? That would greatly surprise me in its abruptness and severity (they only just s

> As of the next version of Chrome, XSLT will be gated behind a flag. Citation? That would greatly surprise me in its abruptness and severity (they only just started talking about it this month, and acknowledge it’s particularly risky for enterprise) and https://chromestatus.com/feature/4709671889534976 https://chromestatus.com/feature/4709671889534976 gives no such indication.

shakna 1y ago
The meeting referenced there, from March not last month, also gives no indication that they'd go ahead and make any moves - "stick a pin in it". But they did anyway. [0] panos: next item, removing XSLT. There are usage numbers. stephen: I have concerns. I kept this up to date historically for Chromium, and I don't trust the use counters based on my experience. Total usage might be higher. dan: even if the data were accurate, not enough zeros for the usage to be low enough. mason: is XSLT supported officially? simon: supported mason: maybe we could just mark it deprecated in the spec, to make the statement that we're not actively working on it. brian: we could do that on MDN too. This would be the first time we have something baseline widely available that we've marked as removed. dan: maybe we could offer helpful pointers to alternatives that are better, and why they're better. panos: maybe a question for olli. But I like brian's suggestion to mark it in all the places. dan: it won't go far unless developers know what to use instead. brian: talk about it in those terms also. Would anyone want to come on the podcast and talk about it? I'm guessing people will have objections. emilio: we have a history of security bugs, etc. stephen: yeah that was a big deal mason: yeah we get bugs about it and have to basically ignore them, which sucks brian: people do use it and some like it panos: put a pin in it, and talk with olli next time? panos: next thing is file upload control rendering [0] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11146#issuecomment-2759059949 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11146#issuecomment-275...
- magicalist 1y ago
  > But they did anyway. Did what? The GP asked for a citation for XSLT support going behind a flag in the next version of Chrome, but you forgot to add that. As best as I can tell, the GP is right and you're confused.
  - troupo 1y ago
    Tracking issue: https://issues.chromium.org/issues/435623334 https://issues.chromium.org/issues/435623334 Add flag to disable XSLT: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6813772 https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/68... It's approved, I don't know which release it will be. Additionally, quote from the GitHub discussion: --- start quote --- Q: why has Chrome already started working on removing the feature from the browser? A: To explore the effects of removal. It's hard to tell what will break without being able to turn it off and see. https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582#issuecomment-3207825144 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582#issuecomment-320... --- end quote ---
    - afavour 1y ago
      > The GP asked for a citation for XSLT support going behind a flag in the next version of Chrome > Add flag to disable XSLT Two very different things. OP is talking about XSLT support going behind a flag, you’re citing XSLT deprecation going behind a flag. The default state matters (and the default state is undeprecated) It makes sense that the Chrome team would do what they’re doing, otherwise it’s very difficult for anyone to assess the impact of XSLT deprecation.
      - troupo 1y ago
        > OP is talking about XSLT support going behind a flag, you’re citing XSLT deprecation going behind a flag. Literally from my link: --- start quote --- Add a feature flag to disable XSLT This adds a feature flag that disables: - XSLTProcessor - XSLT Processing Instructions --- end quote ---
        afavour 1y ago
        Literally from my comment: > The default state matters (and the default state is undeprecated) OP said “ But they did anyway”, and they did not
      - chrismorgan 1y ago
- chrismorgan 1y ago
  By “started talking about it this month” I meant this specific advocation for removing it. Yes, it’s been talked about for years, but this time it’s specific.
  - shakna 1y ago
    > brian: we could do that on MDN too. This would be the first time we have something baseline widely available that we've marked as removed. They were advocating for removing it. And it was specific. And is labelled by the Chromium report you mentioned as the cause. It wasn't "this month".
    - chrismorgan 1y ago
      Again, that’s prior discussion. It’s happened a few times over the last few years. Then another few months pass, and one of the agitators goes about formally proposing removing it, so that finally it isn’t just murmurings more or less behind closed doors, but out in public for the developers to clamour about. That’s where we are this month.
      - shakna 1y ago
        Again, that prior discussion that you're dismissing as irrelevant - is the discussion the Chromium report links to! I don't think that can really get more definitive as cause and effect.
        chrismorgan 1y ago
        I’m not calling it irrelevant, just not part of the actual proposal and ensuing furore, which began this month. We discover there have been mutterings of this for years, and certainly those things led up to it, but this was the first public intimation. They don’t ever say “hi public, we know this is the first you’ve heard about it, but we’re removing a major feature next month”, which is basically what you were claiming (or what it amounted to). Far simpler and less controversial changes have taken many months to be shipped.

shakna 1y ago

The meeting referenced there, from March not last month, also gives no indication that they'd go ahead and make any moves - "stick a pin in it". But they did anyway. [0] panos: next item, removing XSLT. There are usage numbers. stephen: I have concerns. I kept this up to date historically for Chromium, and I don't trust the use counters based on my experience. Total usage might be higher. dan: even if the data were accurate, not enough zeros for the usage to be low enough. mason: is XSLT supported officially? simon: supported mason: maybe we could just mark it deprecated in the spec, to make the statement that we're not actively working on it. brian: we could do that on MDN too. This would be the first time we have something baseline widely available that we've marked as removed. dan: maybe we could offer helpful pointers to alternatives that are better, and why they're better. panos: maybe a question for olli. But I like brian's suggestion to mark it in all the places. dan: it won't go far unless developers know what to use instead. brian: talk about it in those terms also. Would anyone want to come on the podcast and talk about it? I'm guessing people will have objections. emilio: we have a history of security bugs, etc. stephen: yeah that was a big deal mason: yeah we get bugs about it and have to basically ignore them, which sucks brian: people do use it and some like it panos: put a pin in it, and talk with olli next time? panos: next thing is file upload control rendering [0] https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11146#issuecomment-2759059949 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11146#issuecomment-275...

magicalist 1y ago
> But they did anyway. Did what? The GP asked for a citation for XSLT support going behind a flag in the next version of Chrome, but you forgot to add that. As best as I can tell, the GP is right and you're confused.
- troupo 1y ago
  Tracking issue: https://issues.chromium.org/issues/435623334 https://issues.chromium.org/issues/435623334 Add flag to disable XSLT: https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/6813772 https://chromium-review.googlesource.com/c/chromium/src/+/68... It's approved, I don't know which release it will be. Additionally, quote from the GitHub discussion: --- start quote --- Q: why has Chrome already started working on removing the feature from the browser? A: To explore the effects of removal. It's hard to tell what will break without being able to turn it off and see. https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582#issuecomment-3207825144 https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/11582#issuecomment-320... --- end quote ---
  - afavour 1y ago
    > The GP asked for a citation for XSLT support going behind a flag in the next version of Chrome > Add flag to disable XSLT Two very different things. OP is talking about XSLT support going behind a flag, you’re citing XSLT deprecation going behind a flag. The default state matters (and the default state is undeprecated) It makes sense that the Chrome team would do what they’re doing, otherwise it’s very difficult for anyone to assess the impact of XSLT deprecation.
    - troupo 1y ago
      > OP is talking about XSLT support going behind a flag, you’re citing XSLT deprecation going behind a flag. Literally from my link: --- start quote --- Add a feature flag to disable XSLT This adds a feature flag that disables: - XSLTProcessor - XSLT Processing Instructions --- end quote ---
      - afavour 1y ago
        Literally from my comment: > The default state matters (and the default state is undeprecated) OP said “ But they did anyway”, and they did not
    - chrismorgan 1y ago
chrismorgan 1y ago
By “started talking about it this month” I meant this specific advocation for removing it. Yes, it’s been talked about for years, but this time it’s specific.
- shakna 1y ago
  > brian: we could do that on MDN too. This would be the first time we have something baseline widely available that we've marked as removed. They were advocating for removing it. And it was specific. And is labelled by the Chromium report you mentioned as the cause. It wasn't "this month".
  - chrismorgan 1y ago
    Again, that’s prior discussion. It’s happened a few times over the last few years. Then another few months pass, and one of the agitators goes about formally proposing removing it, so that finally it isn’t just murmurings more or less behind closed doors, but out in public for the developers to clamour about. That’s where we are this month.
    - shakna 1y ago
      Again, that prior discussion that you're dismissing as irrelevant - is the discussion the Chromium report links to! I don't think that can really get more definitive as cause and effect.
      - chrismorgan 1y ago
        I’m not calling it irrelevant, just not part of the actual proposal and ensuing furore, which began this month. We discover there have been mutterings of this for years, and certainly those things led up to it, but this was the first public intimation. They don’t ever say “hi public, we know this is the first you’ve heard about it, but we’re removing a major feature next month”, which is basically what you were claiming (or what it amounted to). Far simpler and less controversial changes have taken many months to be shipped.