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Australia has a medicare levy of 2% taxable income - and last time I did the math I'd pay an equal amount in tax there as I do in the US Seems ridiculous the U

Australia has a medicare levy of 2% taxable income - and last time I did the math I'd pay an equal amount in tax there as I do in the US Seems ridiculous the US doesn't have it

thunky 1y ago
A huge number of Australians (over half of the population) also pay for private insurance. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/australia https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy...
- therealpygon 1y ago
  Sounds like a good choice then. 2% for a basic level of care for everyone seems awfully reasonable. We are already paying roughly 1.5% for medicare with most people not being eligible.
tharkun__ 1y ago
Does it? Let's look at another country that has "great universal health care". Let's look to Europe, that's always "up there", right? For statutory or public health insurance, you pay for your insurance through social contributions, the rate of which is 14.6% of the income as determined by the Federal Ministry of Health for 2024. https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/health-insurance/cost/ https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/health-insur... Pretty sure that's up but let's assume 15% of income.
- AstroBen 1y ago
  Does Germany represent the entirety of Europe? The UK, Italy, Denmark, Spain, plenty of others fund their healthcare through general taxes.. why are you focusing on one country? And to not mis-represent Germany too badly - that 14.6% is split between the employer and employee
  - ponector 1y ago
    Does it mean any difference who is the payer if it is deducted from the employer's budget for salaries?
  - tharkun__ 1y ago
    It was an example. You can make other examples. Let's take France. Looks like it's 8% you pay: You’ll pay 8% of your income (that the French government is allowed to tax, after an additional standard deduction of around $11,000 per person). As a ballpark figure, an individual who has income to declare to the French government of $30,000 will pay around $1,520 a year in healthcare. However, you are also only reimbursed 70-80% of your costs (depending on what it is), similar to the NA system(s), where your employer health plan may only reimburse a percentage as well but where no 'top-up' exists. In order to make up the remaining amount in excess of the 70% reimbursement (80% for hospital stays), many French residents opt for private, or “top-up,” insurance. Several options exist, and rates vary from $36 to $72, on average, per month https://internationalliving.com/countries/france/health/ https://internationalliving.com/countries/france/health/
- cornholio 1y ago
  This part is very relevant: > There is an income threshold—EUR 5,175 per month or EUR 62,100 (as of 2024), at which the percentage contribution is capped. What this means is that if your income increases, then this percentage remains fixed and doesn’t change with your salary increase. Germany has a quite progressive tax scheme and the brackets are designed to be complementary, so that as income raises the pension and health benefits are capped while the general income tax grows more aggressively up to a total taxation rate around 45% for high incomes. This is more than you would pay in the US but it includes both free healthcare for the rest of your life and a livable state pension after 67, and you get those benefits even if worse comes to worst and you suffer an accident, major disability etc. This is powerful social safety net that can't really be compared with what the American federal + state + private insurance offer you in return as benefits for your total tax+healthcare contribution.
  - storus 1y ago
    If you are self-employed in Germany (i.e. most high earners that earn over 200k) then you pay around 1100-1200EUR/month on health insurance which is more than a family health insurance plan in the US. Moreover, even if you earn only 62000EUR, you pay 1100+EUR/month, which is absolutely ridiculous given other taxes and VAT.
    - cornholio 1y ago
      > most high earners that earn over 200k Those incomes are by definition restricted to the top 5% of the general population - of course those top earners prefer not to be enrolled in a socialized medicine plan and prefer market insurance with a nominal price tag that is not proportional to income. That's the entire point, to establish a social contract where the healthy and successful pay for the healthcare of the less fortunate, can benefit themselves from that social net if their fortune reverse, and deal with the risk they might never be net beneficiaries if they remain healthy and wealthy. Given the option, high earners would argue that all public spending should be financed by flat nominal taxes, it's not like they personally require more work from the army or the police, or they drive longer distances on public infrastructure.
staringback 1y ago
The cost of Medicare in Australia far exceeds the levy. That was added as an additional tax to supplement the regular funding.

Australia has a medicare levy of 2% taxable income - and last time I did the math I'd pay an equal amount in tax there as I do in the US Seems ridiculous the US doesn't have it

thunky 1y ago

A huge number of Australians (over half of the population) also pay for private insurance. https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/australia https://www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy...

therealpygon 1y ago
Sounds like a good choice then. 2% for a basic level of care for everyone seems awfully reasonable. We are already paying roughly 1.5% for medicare with most people not being eligible.

tharkun__ 1y ago

Does it? Let's look at another country that has "great universal health care". Let's look to Europe, that's always "up there", right? For statutory or public health insurance, you pay for your insurance through social contributions, the rate of which is 14.6% of the income as determined by the Federal Ministry of Health for 2024. https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/health-insurance/cost/ https://www.germany-visa.org/insurances-germany/health-insur... Pretty sure that's up but let's assume 15% of income.

AstroBen 1y ago
Does Germany represent the entirety of Europe? The UK, Italy, Denmark, Spain, plenty of others fund their healthcare through general taxes.. why are you focusing on one country? And to not mis-represent Germany too badly - that 14.6% is split between the employer and employee
- ponector 1y ago
  Does it mean any difference who is the payer if it is deducted from the employer's budget for salaries?
- tharkun__ 1y ago
  It was an example. You can make other examples. Let's take France. Looks like it's 8% you pay: You’ll pay 8% of your income (that the French government is allowed to tax, after an additional standard deduction of around $11,000 per person). As a ballpark figure, an individual who has income to declare to the French government of $30,000 will pay around $1,520 a year in healthcare. However, you are also only reimbursed 70-80% of your costs (depending on what it is), similar to the NA system(s), where your employer health plan may only reimburse a percentage as well but where no 'top-up' exists. In order to make up the remaining amount in excess of the 70% reimbursement (80% for hospital stays), many French residents opt for private, or “top-up,” insurance. Several options exist, and rates vary from $36 to $72, on average, per month https://internationalliving.com/countries/france/health/ https://internationalliving.com/countries/france/health/
cornholio 1y ago
This part is very relevant: > There is an income threshold—EUR 5,175 per month or EUR 62,100 (as of 2024), at which the percentage contribution is capped. What this means is that if your income increases, then this percentage remains fixed and doesn’t change with your salary increase. Germany has a quite progressive tax scheme and the brackets are designed to be complementary, so that as income raises the pension and health benefits are capped while the general income tax grows more aggressively up to a total taxation rate around 45% for high incomes. This is more than you would pay in the US but it includes both free healthcare for the rest of your life and a livable state pension after 67, and you get those benefits even if worse comes to worst and you suffer an accident, major disability etc. This is powerful social safety net that can't really be compared with what the American federal + state + private insurance offer you in return as benefits for your total tax+healthcare contribution.
- storus 1y ago
  If you are self-employed in Germany (i.e. most high earners that earn over 200k) then you pay around 1100-1200EUR/month on health insurance which is more than a family health insurance plan in the US. Moreover, even if you earn only 62000EUR, you pay 1100+EUR/month, which is absolutely ridiculous given other taxes and VAT.
  - cornholio 1y ago
    > most high earners that earn over 200k Those incomes are by definition restricted to the top 5% of the general population - of course those top earners prefer not to be enrolled in a socialized medicine plan and prefer market insurance with a nominal price tag that is not proportional to income. That's the entire point, to establish a social contract where the healthy and successful pay for the healthcare of the less fortunate, can benefit themselves from that social net if their fortune reverse, and deal with the risk they might never be net beneficiaries if they remain healthy and wealthy. Given the option, high earners would argue that all public spending should be financed by flat nominal taxes, it's not like they personally require more work from the army or the police, or they drive longer distances on public infrastructure.

staringback 1y ago

The cost of Medicare in Australia far exceeds the levy. That was added as an additional tax to supplement the regular funding.