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Ironic, Western politicians thought opening up to trade with China would lead to it adopting a Western model of government. Instead it's lead to the USA adoptin
by sobiolite 1y ago
Ironic, Western politicians thought opening up to trade with China would lead to it adopting a Western model of government. Instead it's lead to the USA adopting the Chinese one.
- slashnode 1y agoHa! Too perfect
- glimshe 1y agoThe promiscuous relation between government and tech is as old as Silicon Valley. I'm fact, it created Silicon Valley. It started when people in China were still building backyard furnaces.
- bigyabai 1y agoWho ordered the Chinese people to build furnaces in their backyard?
- actionfromafar 1y agoSome guys who wanted to make China Great Again.
- yieldcrv 1y agoWe even have no assurance of keeping private property via civil asset forfeiture! Private ownership was the adults main point of pride to distinguish from the Chinese when I was growing up. And now the Chinese private property frameworks are closer to ours and ours are closer to theirs.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- nine_k 1y agoCivil forfeiture existed since 1660s, and was used initially to confiscate smugglers' vessels. Then it was dug out during Prohibition, and turned toxic in 1980s when the agencies doing the forfeiture (e.g. police) were allowed to keep the confiscated property. Ideally it should be used for restitution (e.g. to victims of fraud), but... I suspect you were growing up when this was in full swing already.
- yieldcrv 1y agoWe also have criminal forfeiture, which was leveraged a lot more then. Civil forfeiture use expanded dramatically in recent decades due to profit sharing with DOJ alongside court challenges failing, suggesting the need for constitutional amendment if awareness of the practice improves. Both should have more reforms.
- forkeep 1y ago[dead]
- Buttons840 1y ago[flagged]
- gddgb 1y ago[dead]
- robotnikman 1y agoIt somewhat makes sense in terms of industries which are deemed strategically important. Intel needs to start thinking long term instead of short term profits.
- astrange 1y agoThe CHIPS act founded the National Semiconductor Technology Center for this purpose. As for Intel, they aren't even achieving short term profits…
- christina97 1y agoOP didn’t make a value judgement about which model is better or makes more sense!
- petemill 1y ago> Intel needs to start thinking long term instead of short term profits Which is what the last CEO was in the middle of doing and he got fired just recently because they couldn't stomach it
- bobthepanda 1y agoIntel has had a couple years of saying they were going into a more long term vision and failing, and it’s unclear how direct government ownership will make them get better at execution
- JackYoustra 1y agoif someone believes this, they should buy intel and just do it outright! But no one does because it's not as easy as "just think long term" - if it were, berkshire has the liquid money to buy intel several times over.
- Nevermark 1y agoA large new powerful shareholder come in supporting long term thinking does make a difference. Public shareholders are generally short term motivated. One clear reason it doesn't make as much sense to Buffet is he wouldn't get the national security hedge that made the stock a buy for the government.
- cyanydeez 1y agoNo, I think you're missing the wag-the-dog portion of this event.
- DarkNova6 1y agoKinda. But I think the current Chinese model is actually much closer to how the USA used to work when there was competition with the USSR. Closer than the US of today compared to the 70s and 80s.
- torginus 1y agoThe current Chinese model's basically you have fully publicly traded companies, companies who are either minority or majority owned by a certain provincial government and ones who are either minority or majority owned by the central government (although this is surprisingly rare outside of key areas like telco/banking)
- s1artibartfast 1y agoSomething like 60% of the top of 100 companies in China are entirely state-owned. Most of the rest are government stake
- est 1y agokey industries are all controlled by the govn't
- torginus 1y agohttps://msadvisory.com/china-biggest-companies/ https://msadvisory.com/china-biggest-companies/ Look at this list - all the big ones here which are state owned are investment banks, petro companies and telcos. Everyone else on the list (mainly internet companies, BYD, gaming, and B2C sales/distribution) is privately owned.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- JackYoustra 1y agoThe US never owned a brewer, an airline, the major defense giants, etc.
- Tagbert 1y ago[flagged]
- eastbound 1y ago[flagged]
- FrustratedMonky 1y agoWe're living in the time of irony. Up is Down, Left is Right, Right is Left. Republicans have become Socialist. Free Speech absolutist now against Free Speech.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- andsoitis 1y agoWestern governments have taken a stake in, nationalised, or owned / operated corporations for a very long time! Some examples: VOC, BBC, national airlines, etc. List across countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government-owned_companies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_government-owned_compa... US specific: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_the...
- legitster 1y agoMost of these were done under duress or specifically for public goods (BBC, for example). Taking an ownership stake in broad daylight for political favors is very much unprecedented in the modern economy.
- delfinom 1y agoIt's not if you now live in a (if not soon) dictatorship.
- andsoitis 1y ago> Most of these were done under duress So the Intel case not done under duress? > Taking an ownership stake in broad daylight for political favors The article didn’t spell it out or maybe I missed it but what political favors?
- gddgb 1y ago[dead]
- JackYoustra 1y agoCalling VOC an offshoot of a western government with any modern relevance is a HUMONGOUS stretch
- concinds 1y agoIt’s not “adopting” the Chinese model yet, so much as incoherently copying bits and pieces. If you want to run effective industrial policy you need sufficient state capacity and an army of technocrats who are experts on industrial policy. Trump’s second term performance gives no hope on both fronts.
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- torginus 1y agoYeah, this so weird coming from the US. The US government has a history of writing no-strings-attached blank cheques to people/companies just so avoid the stigma of government control in public companies. I wonder how the markets will react, will stocks go up because people will assume Intel's going to be a government mandated champion or will they go down because of the negative connotations government control brings?
- JackYoustra 1y agoName one literal no-strings-attached blank cheque to a large company in the last 20 years
- deleted 1y ago[deleted]
- spacebanana7 1y agoPerhaps not strictly “no-strings-attached” but many of the 2008 bailouts were functionally mechanisms to avoid nationalisation.
- meetingthrower 1y agoLol the jail free bailouts of the banks in 2008? Goldman got billions from the bailout of AIG, management got millions and millions in bonuses....
- ChadNauseam 1y agoThose bailouts were generally loans that were paid back. Pretty far from a "no strings attached blank cheque".
- WalterBright 1y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solyndra https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act
- 1y ago
- pryce 1y agoThat's very cute quip but I notice that it places the blame on 'trade with China' for an alarming problem that is in fact entirely the doing of US voters expressing their values (or the lack of them) in fair elections. A more interesting question is whether that voterbase's idea of what they were voting for does or doesn't line up with what they got.
- jibal 1y agopost hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy (Also, pet peeve: "it's lead" should be "it's led".)
- signatoremo 1y agoYou need to study history. US government is no stranger in getting stakes in businesses. Did you already forget the Great Depression? https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/government-financial-bailout.asp https://www.investopedia.com/articles/economics/08/governmen...
- bink 1y agoWe aren't anywhere close to being in a depression though. What extraordinary situation requires the government to take a stake in a public company and under what conditions will this position be liquidated?
- rpmisms 1y agoWe are very close to being in a depression. Most of our money has nothing to do with actually feeding or housing people. If the wrong thing shifts, we're toast.
- bink 1y agoThe unemployment rate is still near historic lows and while new job numbers are getting worse they're still positive overall. We aren't anywhere close to being in a depression currently.
- rpmisms 1y agoThe unemployment rate does not count people who stopped trying. We are far closer than you think.
- meowky 1y ago> We aren't anywhere close to being in a depression though. This may be true in the economic sense. But “depression” is as much a political sensation as it is a technically defined economic term. We happen to live in an era where economics for the public is profoundly politicized.
- Barrin92 1y agoThe Chinese have been surprisingly willing to let companies and sectors die even at the expense of growth (see real estate), I think it's honestly too charitable to compare the US to China, which has at least some degree of technocratic governance, the US went straight for something out of the Tropico franchise