4 ms·

> I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road. I think it would be far

> I would adore to see obtaining a drivers license ratchet up in difficulty in order to remove dangerous human drivers from the road. I think it would be far more effective to make it easier to lose your license than it would be to make getting the license more challenging. The absolute most dangerous drivers I see on the road aren't bad drivers in the sense that they're unskilled at controlling their car. I can't weave between cars at 120 mph or cross three lanes of traffic to make an exit I didn't see until the last second without killing myself, but I routinely see people do that. Sure they don't care about driving safely and/or following the law, but they're probably sane enough to pull it together for a brief driving test. The other big category of dangerous drivers is drunk/distracted (texting) drivers. Again, most of the people engaging in these behaviors are probably smart enough not to do them during a driving test.

dbg31415 1y ago
> I think it would be far more effective to make it easier to lose your license than it would be to make getting the license more challenging. For your system to work, there would actually need to be cops watching traffic. Since the pandemic, some cities just don't have as many police watching the streets as they used to. For example, there is virtually no traffic enforcement in Austin now. You see the results with how much people speed now, and how awful some drivers behave on the road. * Traffic enforcement capacity in Austin dropped significantly -- traffic citations fell about 55% between 2018–2022. https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Auditor/Audit_Reports/Special_Request_Effects_of_Traffic_Patrol_on_Road_Safety_Nov_2023.pdf https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Audito... * As a result, speeding tickets, which once averaged 100 per day in 2017, dropped to about 10 per day by 2021 -- a 90% decrease. https://www.kut.org/transportation/2022-02-24/austin-police-speeding-tickets-staffing-shortage-traffic-fatalities-travis-county https://www.kut.org/transportation/2022-02-24/austin-police-...
- scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
  If only there were other ways of tracking and observing vehicle behavior. And some reliable way of identifying vehicles themselves. Or ways that we could automate this with computers to sort through. But that's just science fiction. Cars are just going to be cars!
  - cwmoore 1y ago
    It sounds like you have a problem with the police, ok? Step outside please.
  - dzhiurgis 1y ago
    Kinda more dystopian the ads have better tracking of us than law enforcement.
    - scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
      Yes. This. Or that the advertising is the driving force behind surveillance tech
  - beAbU 1y ago
    Kinda funny how the HN crowd can both decry and advocate for automated mass surveillance at the same time.
    - scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
      The HN crowd wouldn't see the tounge in cheek humor if it hit them in the face. Vehicles have these things called license plates and take a license to operate. It's not dystopian mass surveillance or a technical challenge to have a camera assigning tickets for operating machinery dangerously in public spaces.
    - dbg31415 1y ago
      Not funny -- terrifying. In Texas, traffic cameras that automatically issue tickets are illegal. Courts ruled they violate the constitutional right to face your accuser. And look, that's how it should be. And I certainly don't want my own car, phone, or anything else I own snitching on me while I drive.
    - account42 1y ago
      Is this the first time you have encountered a community made up of individuals with different opinions?
- lazide 1y ago
  But why? Did they fire all the cops? Or did the cops just stop doing their jobs?
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    They’ve seemingly chosen, en masse, to simply do nothing anymore.
  - dbg31415 1y ago
    Austin didn't "fire all the cops." What happened was messier. After 2020, the city council cut about a third of the police budget and paused new cadet classes. At the same time, hundreds of officers retired early or left for better pay elsewhere. By 2023, patrol vacancies were over 30%. With fewer officers, APD stopped handling whole categories of calls -- traffic enforcement, minor crashes, and low-level 911 calls -- because they just didn't have the staff. Then politics made it worse. Austin leaders (Blue) pushed for more oversight and accountability. The governor (Red) fought back with bills to hide misconduct records and block transparency. The Travis County DA started prosecuting misconduct more aggressively, straining relations even further. The result: a demoralized force, hollowed-out staffing, and a city caught between "fund them less" and "hold them accountable more," while basic policing collapsed. So no, they weren't fired. But yes, many stopped doing the job -- leaving Austin residents stuck in the middle of a state–city standoff. And honestly, it feels like that was Governor Abbott's goal all along: "If you didn't vote for me, don't expect police to lift a finger for you." These days, even for traffic accidents, assaults, or vandalism, 911 just tells you to file a report online.
    - lazide 1y ago
      San Jose had a similar drama play out. Not the only one either. Fun times.
rib3ye 1y ago
Don't you think it would be easier and cheaper to gatekeep than to build up an enforcement and judgement workforce.
- dbmikus 1y ago
  The people that are good but dangerous drivers will drive well and safely during tests, so you won't catch them.
  - mcny 1y ago
    We need a consistently reliable public transit system before we tell people they can't drive for one reason or another.
    - AlecSchueler 1y ago
      Allow drink driving in places with no metro system? There are obviously lines to be drawn in what you allow, for the safety of others, regardless of the alternatives. That said, we can absolutely work on improving public transport at the same time. There's no reason to have to fully solve public transport before trying to tackle dangerous driving.
      - spauldo 1y ago
        People don't need to drink. They do need to get to work, pick up the kids from school, buy groceries, etc.
    - xnx 1y ago
      > We need a consistently reliable public transit system Like Waymo
Retric 1y ago
Currently people will just ignore a revoked license the same way they ignore other traffic laws. So I think ~level 5 self driving cars becoming common + a modification to prevent people using their cars just like we install breathalyzers for habitual DUI drivers is needed before revoking people’s licenses is really a meaningful punishment.
- throwaway0123_5 1y ago
  Doubtless some would ignore it, but you can go to jail for driving on a suspended license. I suspect there are a lot more people willing to risk a traffic ticket and a few $100 in fines for speeding, bad lane changes, etc. than there are people willing to risk jail for driving on a suspended license.
  - donalhunt 1y ago
    s/some/plenty/ In Ireland, jail time is rare for such offences sadly. In cases where jail time is sentenced, overcrowding in prisons often results in early release.
    - tempodox 1y ago
      But prison is a business in the U.S., so new customers are always welcome.
  - Retric 1y ago
    Obviously it’s not 100% meaningless, but the kind of people losing their licenses here correlate with the kinds of people who will take these risks. Thus for many it’s a symbolic gesture until the next time something happens which is little different than simply doing nothing until the next incident like say 3 strike laws.
    - throwaway0123_5 1y ago
      I think that is probably true now (in the US), but the hypothetical is that it is made easier to lose your license. DC recently banned "right on red" but it is routinely ignored and the penalty is apparently a $100 fine. If the penalty was loss of license (maybe not on first offense) I think there's a lot of people ignoring the current rule that would not be willing to ignore the possibility of losing their license.

dbg31415 1y ago

> I think it would be far more effective to make it easier to lose your license than it would be to make getting the license more challenging. For your system to work, there would actually need to be cops watching traffic. Since the pandemic, some cities just don't have as many police watching the streets as they used to. For example, there is virtually no traffic enforcement in Austin now. You see the results with how much people speed now, and how awful some drivers behave on the road. * Traffic enforcement capacity in Austin dropped significantly -- traffic citations fell about 55% between 2018–2022. https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Auditor/Audit_Reports/Special_Request_Effects_of_Traffic_Patrol_on_Road_Safety_Nov_2023.pdf https://www.austintexas.gov/sites/default/files/files/Audito... * As a result, speeding tickets, which once averaged 100 per day in 2017, dropped to about 10 per day by 2021 -- a 90% decrease. https://www.kut.org/transportation/2022-02-24/austin-police-speeding-tickets-staffing-shortage-traffic-fatalities-travis-county https://www.kut.org/transportation/2022-02-24/austin-police-...

scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
If only there were other ways of tracking and observing vehicle behavior. And some reliable way of identifying vehicles themselves. Or ways that we could automate this with computers to sort through. But that's just science fiction. Cars are just going to be cars!
- cwmoore 1y ago
  It sounds like you have a problem with the police, ok? Step outside please.
- dzhiurgis 1y ago
  Kinda more dystopian the ads have better tracking of us than law enforcement.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
    Yes. This. Or that the advertising is the driving force behind surveillance tech
- beAbU 1y ago
  Kinda funny how the HN crowd can both decry and advocate for automated mass surveillance at the same time.
  - scyzoryk_xyz 1y ago
    The HN crowd wouldn't see the tounge in cheek humor if it hit them in the face. Vehicles have these things called license plates and take a license to operate. It's not dystopian mass surveillance or a technical challenge to have a camera assigning tickets for operating machinery dangerously in public spaces.
  - dbg31415 1y ago
    Not funny -- terrifying. In Texas, traffic cameras that automatically issue tickets are illegal. Courts ruled they violate the constitutional right to face your accuser. And look, that's how it should be. And I certainly don't want my own car, phone, or anything else I own snitching on me while I drive.
  - account42 1y ago
    Is this the first time you have encountered a community made up of individuals with different opinions?
lazide 1y ago
But why? Did they fire all the cops? Or did the cops just stop doing their jobs?
- Henchman21 1y ago
  They’ve seemingly chosen, en masse, to simply do nothing anymore.
- dbg31415 1y ago
  Austin didn't "fire all the cops." What happened was messier. After 2020, the city council cut about a third of the police budget and paused new cadet classes. At the same time, hundreds of officers retired early or left for better pay elsewhere. By 2023, patrol vacancies were over 30%. With fewer officers, APD stopped handling whole categories of calls -- traffic enforcement, minor crashes, and low-level 911 calls -- because they just didn't have the staff. Then politics made it worse. Austin leaders (Blue) pushed for more oversight and accountability. The governor (Red) fought back with bills to hide misconduct records and block transparency. The Travis County DA started prosecuting misconduct more aggressively, straining relations even further. The result: a demoralized force, hollowed-out staffing, and a city caught between "fund them less" and "hold them accountable more," while basic policing collapsed. So no, they weren't fired. But yes, many stopped doing the job -- leaving Austin residents stuck in the middle of a state–city standoff. And honestly, it feels like that was Governor Abbott's goal all along: "If you didn't vote for me, don't expect police to lift a finger for you." These days, even for traffic accidents, assaults, or vandalism, 911 just tells you to file a report online.
  - lazide 1y ago
    San Jose had a similar drama play out. Not the only one either. Fun times.

rib3ye 1y ago

Don't you think it would be easier and cheaper to gatekeep than to build up an enforcement and judgement workforce.

dbmikus 1y ago
The people that are good but dangerous drivers will drive well and safely during tests, so you won't catch them.
- mcny 1y ago
  We need a consistently reliable public transit system before we tell people they can't drive for one reason or another.
  - AlecSchueler 1y ago
    Allow drink driving in places with no metro system? There are obviously lines to be drawn in what you allow, for the safety of others, regardless of the alternatives. That said, we can absolutely work on improving public transport at the same time. There's no reason to have to fully solve public transport before trying to tackle dangerous driving.
    - spauldo 1y ago
      People don't need to drink. They do need to get to work, pick up the kids from school, buy groceries, etc.
  - xnx 1y ago
    > We need a consistently reliable public transit system Like Waymo

Retric 1y ago

Currently people will just ignore a revoked license the same way they ignore other traffic laws. So I think ~level 5 self driving cars becoming common + a modification to prevent people using their cars just like we install breathalyzers for habitual DUI drivers is needed before revoking people’s licenses is really a meaningful punishment.

throwaway0123_5 1y ago
Doubtless some would ignore it, but you can go to jail for driving on a suspended license. I suspect there are a lot more people willing to risk a traffic ticket and a few $100 in fines for speeding, bad lane changes, etc. than there are people willing to risk jail for driving on a suspended license.
- donalhunt 1y ago
  s/some/plenty/ In Ireland, jail time is rare for such offences sadly. In cases where jail time is sentenced, overcrowding in prisons often results in early release.
  - tempodox 1y ago
    But prison is a business in the U.S., so new customers are always welcome.
- Retric 1y ago
  Obviously it’s not 100% meaningless, but the kind of people losing their licenses here correlate with the kinds of people who will take these risks. Thus for many it’s a symbolic gesture until the next time something happens which is little different than simply doing nothing until the next incident like say 3 strike laws.
  - throwaway0123_5 1y ago
    I think that is probably true now (in the US), but the hypothetical is that it is made easier to lose your license. DC recently banned "right on red" but it is routinely ignored and the penalty is apparently a $100 fine. If the penalty was loss of license (maybe not on first offense) I think there's a lot of people ignoring the current rule that would not be willing to ignore the possibility of losing their license.