4 ms·

Guests in a country should follow some basic rules, starting with the laws. Who here would be happy if you invited a guest into your house and they ignored you

by ap99 1y ago

Guests in a country should follow some basic rules, starting with the laws. Who here would be happy if you invited a guest into your house and they ignored your customs like no shoes in the house or clean up after yourself. Why should countries be different.

goku12 1y ago
As someone else already pointed out, it's rather easy to find one law or the other that any particular person has broken - that's a fundamental problem with laws everywhere. So what you suggest is rather impractical when the regime is on a mission to find at least one for every 'guest'. But okay, your country your rules. But there is a catch. If you insist on treating every guest as a criminal to be confirmed, to be marched out like animals on chains without any due process for them to defend their reputation, then get ready to be treated as the ghetto of the world. That's a consequence of every guest and every country expecting to be treated with dignity. That's one thing you cannot control and practically the entire rest of the world is in the other camp. I'm sure you're confident about the ability of your citizens to hold up the nation without any help. I'm not going to argue. I admire all societies and cultures for their unique abilities and achievements. But you would be worried if you knew how much these 'guests' contributed to your nation's greatness across time and across every strata of your society. They built everything from your earliest railroads to your biggest rockets. They man your remotest farms to the top echelons of your administration. You'd be underestimating their importance to your welfare at your own peril. But forget the guests. I'm worried about you people too. Nations treat the visas they issue and even asylum requests with great respect. The guests are given almost all the protections as citizens - only the right to influence the governance is denied. But that situation has changed rapidly recently. Not only are the legal guests being abused, the treatment is gradually being extended to legal citizens, with the attempts to cancel birthright and naturalized citizenship. Two measures are extremely concerning - many of the deported immigrants had no criminal records anywhere. And citizens like the 4 year old cancer patient were deported by putting their immigrant parents in an impossible situation. At this rate, how long till they start applying it to citizens like you? Never forget what someone said about 'home growns'. Clearly, your conduct is not what defines your standing. Are you sure you're on the right side in this regime's eyes? I could taunt you for your confidence, which I wouldn't hold in the same situation. But I don't enjoy anyone's pain or misery. That pain and misery won't be as bad as what others had to suffer due to the cruelty of some of your leaders - like shell-shocked orphans wandering aimlessly in the streets or mothers wailing inconsolably over the graves of their toddler children. But pain is still pain. And I'm worried. Just prepare for whatever is coming and hunker down. No one's future is guaranteed, including mine. So, good luck for now. I hope to continue this conversation on the other side.
- ap99 1y ago
  If the thing you did when entering a country was break the law by entering illegally, you should be removed. Just like if I broke into your house, I'm no longer a guest -- I'm a criminal. You're finding nuance where there is none. And you're mixing how a country treats guests with how it treat citizens. Look at countries which have high expectations on how guests behave, e.g. Japan, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Poland, etc. It's not cruelty to enforce laws. You're the type of altruistic virtue signaling fool that would destroy their community or country just to feel better about themselves.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago
> Who here would be happy if you invited a guest into your house and they ignored your customs like no shoes in the house or clean up after yourself. It would be very reasonable to be unhappy about that, for sure. However, it's also reasonable to be unhappy when my neighbor kicks me out of their house for not taking off my shoes rather than reminding me to take them off. I'd probably stop visiting that neighbor, especially if the other people in my neighborhood could tell me similar stories.
throwawaysoxjje 1y ago
Are you saying that other people should do that because you did?

by ap99 1y ago

goku12 1y ago

As someone else already pointed out, it's rather easy to find one law or the other that any particular person has broken - that's a fundamental problem with laws everywhere. So what you suggest is rather impractical when the regime is on a mission to find at least one for every 'guest'. But okay, your country your rules. But there is a catch. If you insist on treating every guest as a criminal to be confirmed, to be marched out like animals on chains without any due process for them to defend their reputation, then get ready to be treated as the ghetto of the world. That's a consequence of every guest and every country expecting to be treated with dignity. That's one thing you cannot control and practically the entire rest of the world is in the other camp. I'm sure you're confident about the ability of your citizens to hold up the nation without any help. I'm not going to argue. I admire all societies and cultures for their unique abilities and achievements. But you would be worried if you knew how much these 'guests' contributed to your nation's greatness across time and across every strata of your society. They built everything from your earliest railroads to your biggest rockets. They man your remotest farms to the top echelons of your administration. You'd be underestimating their importance to your welfare at your own peril. But forget the guests. I'm worried about you people too. Nations treat the visas they issue and even asylum requests with great respect. The guests are given almost all the protections as citizens - only the right to influence the governance is denied. But that situation has changed rapidly recently. Not only are the legal guests being abused, the treatment is gradually being extended to legal citizens, with the attempts to cancel birthright and naturalized citizenship. Two measures are extremely concerning - many of the deported immigrants had no criminal records anywhere. And citizens like the 4 year old cancer patient were deported by putting their immigrant parents in an impossible situation. At this rate, how long till they start applying it to citizens like you? Never forget what someone said about 'home growns'. Clearly, your conduct is not what defines your standing. Are you sure you're on the right side in this regime's eyes? I could taunt you for your confidence, which I wouldn't hold in the same situation. But I don't enjoy anyone's pain or misery. That pain and misery won't be as bad as what others had to suffer due to the cruelty of some of your leaders - like shell-shocked orphans wandering aimlessly in the streets or mothers wailing inconsolably over the graves of their toddler children. But pain is still pain. And I'm worried. Just prepare for whatever is coming and hunker down. No one's future is guaranteed, including mine. So, good luck for now. I hope to continue this conversation on the other side.

ap99 1y ago
If the thing you did when entering a country was break the law by entering illegally, you should be removed. Just like if I broke into your house, I'm no longer a guest -- I'm a criminal. You're finding nuance where there is none. And you're mixing how a country treats guests with how it treat citizens. Look at countries which have high expectations on how guests behave, e.g. Japan, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Poland, etc. It's not cruelty to enforce laws. You're the type of altruistic virtue signaling fool that would destroy their community or country just to feel better about themselves.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 1y ago

> Who here would be happy if you invited a guest into your house and they ignored your customs like no shoes in the house or clean up after yourself. It would be very reasonable to be unhappy about that, for sure. However, it's also reasonable to be unhappy when my neighbor kicks me out of their house for not taking off my shoes rather than reminding me to take them off. I'd probably stop visiting that neighbor, especially if the other people in my neighborhood could tell me similar stories.

throwawaysoxjje 1y ago

Are you saying that other people should do that because you did?