4 ms·

I think the problem is that there's a difference between a good manager and a manager who keeps their job.

mettamage 1y ago
The incentive is more strongly aligned with the latter one than the former one. I'm going through a bit of a phase at the moment, so I'm biased. It's "show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome". I used to find that an interesting idea, not sure if true or not. Nowadays a few years later, I'm almost hyper focusing on it, because I'm noticing that it is mostly true. Like, there's some room for individuality but when things _matter_ (e.g. livelihood, etc.), then the incentive seems paramount for most people.
- giancarlostoro 1y ago
  Bad management trickles down from the top usually.
  - lazide 1y ago
    Also known as ‘a fish rots from the head’
- scubbo 1y ago
  > I'm going through a bit of a phase at the moment, so I'm biased. It's "show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome". I've been in that "phase" for several years now. It's rarely steered me wrong.
giancarlostoro 1y ago
I had one that fired everyone he hired, I was the last one and one other guy, I got the can for sticking up for the other guy, and the other guy got a demotion. Eventually when things at the company were bad enough the manager got the can with a ton of other managers. My friend who is still there says this is his last ever programming job, after that manager he wants nothing to do with this industry, and that is a shame.
apwell23 1y ago
despite talk of "great flattening" I've found that management seems to be strangely immune from layoffs compared to ICs. enterprises just love layers and layers of management. can't get enough of it. No CEO has ever seen a management layer he didn't like.
- game_the0ry 1y ago
  > management seems to be strangely immune from layoffs compared to ICs. This is super common and a very bad sign. As an employee, you are disposable in this type of culture, though it should go without saying. > enterprises just love layers and layers of management. can't get enough of it. No CEO has ever seen a management layer he didn't like. Bc more warm bodies in your org looks better on the resume. Managing 200 people on paper is more impressive than managing 20.
- matusp 1y ago
  True. Also paradoxically, managers are the most likely to have negative value for the company, running entire departments or projects into the ground. Yet you rarely see this being reflected.

The incentive is more strongly aligned with the latter one than the former one. I'm going through a bit of a phase at the moment, so I'm biased. It's "show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome". I used to find that an interesting idea, not sure if true or not. Nowadays a few years later, I'm almost hyper focusing on it, because I'm noticing that it is mostly true. Like, there's some room for individuality but when things _matter_ (e.g. livelihood, etc.), then the incentive seems paramount for most people.

giancarlostoro 1y ago
Bad management trickles down from the top usually.
- lazide 1y ago
  Also known as ‘a fish rots from the head’
scubbo 1y ago
> I'm going through a bit of a phase at the moment, so I'm biased. It's "show me the incentive and I will show you the outcome". I've been in that "phase" for several years now. It's rarely steered me wrong.

giancarlostoro 1y ago

I had one that fired everyone he hired, I was the last one and one other guy, I got the can for sticking up for the other guy, and the other guy got a demotion. Eventually when things at the company were bad enough the manager got the can with a ton of other managers. My friend who is still there says this is his last ever programming job, after that manager he wants nothing to do with this industry, and that is a shame.

apwell23 1y ago

despite talk of "great flattening" I've found that management seems to be strangely immune from layoffs compared to ICs. enterprises just love layers and layers of management. can't get enough of it. No CEO has ever seen a management layer he didn't like.

game_the0ry 1y ago
> management seems to be strangely immune from layoffs compared to ICs. This is super common and a very bad sign. As an employee, you are disposable in this type of culture, though it should go without saying. > enterprises just love layers and layers of management. can't get enough of it. No CEO has ever seen a management layer he didn't like. Bc more warm bodies in your org looks better on the resume. Managing 200 people on paper is more impressive than managing 20.
matusp 1y ago
True. Also paradoxically, managers are the most likely to have negative value for the company, running entire departments or projects into the ground. Yet you rarely see this being reflected.