3 ms·

I don't feel represented on the national or international stage AT ALL. Maybe I'll stop paying mine.

aleph_minus_one 1y ago
> I don't feel represented on the national or international stage AT ALL. Maybe I'll stop paying mine. Now gather a huge group of friends who are willing to fight for this cause (and for whose this cause is so important that they can accept ending in jail or even worse).
- DeusExMachina 1y ago
  Be careful what you ask for. History has proven that such a group will exist at some point.
  - mindslight 1y ago
    System's got that on lock by setting it up so the people most predisposed to fight the government are actually cheering on the new taxes. Information/policy/consent flowing the opposite way from how is commonly understood has been my critique of democracy for a long time, but the effect just keeps growing. Social media is a hell of a drug.
    - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
      > System's got that on lock by setting it up so the people most predisposed to fight the government are actually cheering on the new taxes more likely, proving that this group of people never actually believed in anything.
      - mindslight 1y ago
        I don't see how that is a more useful model than what I said. Maybe for rallying people to oppose the current problems. But it feels like such preaching to the choir mainly serves to exacerbate the "culture war" that helps shut off people's thinking to begin with. So pushing that way might help win the immediate battle, but it also helps lose the overall war.
        GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
        i don't think it contributes to the culture war to recognize that most people are not truly engaged in a collective sense, and that we are trapped within a self-reproducing system that relies on that: "...the autocratic reign of the market economy which had acceded to an irresponsible sovereignty, and the totality of new techniques of government which accompanied this reign." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectacle_(critical_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectacle_(critical_theory)
        mindslight 1y ago
        That may be where you are coming from, but your original comment didn't contain anything beyond a simple smack down that is too-easily interpreted in a partisan manner.
        viridian 1y ago
        One can be immersed in the behavior of the spectacle while also opposed to it. Frankly, I'd say that applies frequently to most situationists and critical theorists I've interacted with, including myself. The fact that signposting "outgroup bad" is so psychologically rewarding, while nuanced discussions are more difficult, get less engagement from others, etc, is actually a critical reason we are where we are as a culture. This isn't meant as a defense of or attack on GuinansEyebrows, more a self reflection of my own, similar behavior.
Gud 1y ago
What you "feel" is irrelevant though? You have the option of voting.

> I don't feel represented on the national or international stage AT ALL. Maybe I'll stop paying mine. Now gather a huge group of friends who are willing to fight for this cause (and for whose this cause is so important that they can accept ending in jail or even worse).

DeusExMachina 1y ago
Be careful what you ask for. History has proven that such a group will exist at some point.
- mindslight 1y ago
  System's got that on lock by setting it up so the people most predisposed to fight the government are actually cheering on the new taxes. Information/policy/consent flowing the opposite way from how is commonly understood has been my critique of democracy for a long time, but the effect just keeps growing. Social media is a hell of a drug.
  - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
    > System's got that on lock by setting it up so the people most predisposed to fight the government are actually cheering on the new taxes more likely, proving that this group of people never actually believed in anything.
    - mindslight 1y ago
      I don't see how that is a more useful model than what I said. Maybe for rallying people to oppose the current problems. But it feels like such preaching to the choir mainly serves to exacerbate the "culture war" that helps shut off people's thinking to begin with. So pushing that way might help win the immediate battle, but it also helps lose the overall war.
      - GuinansEyebrows 1y ago
        i don't think it contributes to the culture war to recognize that most people are not truly engaged in a collective sense, and that we are trapped within a self-reproducing system that relies on that: "...the autocratic reign of the market economy which had acceded to an irresponsible sovereignty, and the totality of new techniques of government which accompanied this reign." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectacle_(critical_theory) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spectacle_(critical_theory)
        mindslight 1y ago
        That may be where you are coming from, but your original comment didn't contain anything beyond a simple smack down that is too-easily interpreted in a partisan manner.
        viridian 1y ago
        One can be immersed in the behavior of the spectacle while also opposed to it. Frankly, I'd say that applies frequently to most situationists and critical theorists I've interacted with, including myself. The fact that signposting "outgroup bad" is so psychologically rewarding, while nuanced discussions are more difficult, get less engagement from others, etc, is actually a critical reason we are where we are as a culture. This isn't meant as a defense of or attack on GuinansEyebrows, more a self reflection of my own, similar behavior.

Gud 1y ago

What you "feel" is irrelevant though? You have the option of voting.