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With all due respect, can you outline why the current version of America is actually better than China? I mean China has major issues but I'm starting to lose s

With all due respect, can you outline why the current version of America is actually better than China? I mean China has major issues but I'm starting to lose sight of what makes the USA a better more trustworthy ally who protects freedom and democracy? I'm not saying "it's over" but there are a lot of troubling signs it's going in the wrong direction fast. In the case of India and China, I think it's more of a case of India becoming more independent, which is "good" on the one hand ,but probably terrible for American hegemony and they will just side more with Russia and continue to buy resources from them. I'm not sure if Americans can really grasp how their soft power around the world is vaporizing by the day. Even at it's peak, probably Obama era, I wouldn't say America was default popular, now, I don't know what to say but it's really looking as if people are just deciding to move on from the American experiment as we realize it might not be coming back. Look at places like Switzerland cancelling orders of F35s, just a coincidence ? I guess smaller countries aren't being left with much choice, that's the fundamental issue. Edit: I'm not worried about the down votes, but I also think it's sad and maybe even a sign that people have sore feelings about reality?

safety1st 1y ago
I appreciate that you asked the question and actually want to learn about foreign affairs between two non Western countries! So to just scratch the surface, China and India had a full blown war in the 1960s and have had armed conflict on their shared border many times, most recently in 2021. Meanwhile China actually INVADED Vietnam in 1979, four years after the US-Vietnam War ended! Both of these countries view China as an immediate potential military threat because it is one, they have fought actual wars with it. It's so wild how there are all these Western liberals who think Trump is somehow worse than this, I don't even like the guy but these people obviously don't know shit about the history of the region. The history is China warring with these countries!
- lenkite 1y ago
  Do note that the 2020-21 conflict was not a "truly armed" conflict per-se. Unless you count biological, human arms with the occasional use of sticks. Most of it involved muscle power and no firearms. I personally find it remarkable that two large nations can have a border conflict without a single gunshot fired.
  - safety1st 1y ago
    What? Per independent sources shots were fired and dozens were killed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%8...
    - lenkite 1y ago
      Warning shots into the air are fine. There are border agreements not to use firearms directly against soldiers. This was religiously followed by both sides - no one died because of gunshots.
    - porridgeraisin 1y ago
      The actual battle was hand+sticks "guerilla". All shots were warning shots and did not occur as part of the actual guerilla fight. The shots happened at multiple places in different times.
      - safety1st 1y ago
        Shots were fired along the LAC for the first time in 45 years and according to independent sources dozens were killed. So what if they weren't killed by the bullets? What is with this weird downplaying of the conflict? India/China tensions are high and they recently killed each other on their border!
        kelipso 1y ago
        Modi just visited China earlier this month, last visit was 2019, so India-China relations are better now and tensions aren't that high anymore.
        porridgeraisin 1y ago
        Yes yes.. the same article says they were all warning shots. Dozens were definitely killed... but in the guerilla fight. I was just making that part clear. No one is downplaying anything, there was a lot of animosity in india against china after that. Since it happened during the COVID lockdown, which was attributed to a wuhan lab leak at the time, the animosity intensified. It still exists today. Of course, animosity is irrelevant in geopolitics, so it is useless to try and reconcile this with varying levels of co-operation and friendly foreign ministry statements between the two countries in the 5 years since.
- bamboozled 1y ago
  I know the history, but then there is just cold hard current day reality you have to reckon with. I don't felt like you answered my question. Vietnam is going to be looking at the way the USA is treating it's allies right now and thinking seriously about the way forwards. If you think they're not asking themselves some pretty hard questions, I think you might be a bit deluded. I mean, do you truly think the USA will come to Vietnam's side if it's invaded by China? Honestly? look at all the whining about helping Ukraine and you think the current administration will enter a hot war with China over Vietnam? 90% of Americans wouldn't even know where that is. Regarding India and Russia, they're already allies, they already do significant trade, I'm not sure what you're reading but I don't think India is by default America first. They nuclear armed, so they have that "f u" card to play as well. I'm not based in the west either sorry. I wouldn't say I'm a "western liberal", I see you've already made up your mind though.
  - safety1st 1y ago
    I mean, what is this stuff you're making up about the US and Vietnam being allies? Is that your head canon? What does Vietnam do as a part of this alliance? If you think those two countries were ever allies in any serious military or political sense you're deluded. The US is Vietnam's biggest customer and they changed the terms under which they're willing to buy stuff, that's all. You also better believe that when tensions flare up between Vietnam and China again, Vietnam will be begging the US for help. On a personal level I am American and the most annoying thing about living in Southeast Asia quite frankly is how much people here seem to think they deserve my money in exchange for selling me low quality shit I don't need or want. You can't have my money. Go away. We can end the relationship and I will be perfectly happy without you. It's amazing how this parallels foreign relations.
    - watwut 1y ago
      The point was not that they are allies. The point was that USA is very unreliable ally. They will promise things, take away what they want and won't deliver. It is an ally that sees allies as suckers and treats them badly. Basically, the point was that aspiring to be USA ally is not worth the effort.

safety1st 1y ago

I appreciate that you asked the question and actually want to learn about foreign affairs between two non Western countries! So to just scratch the surface, China and India had a full blown war in the 1960s and have had armed conflict on their shared border many times, most recently in 2021. Meanwhile China actually INVADED Vietnam in 1979, four years after the US-Vietnam War ended! Both of these countries view China as an immediate potential military threat because it is one, they have fought actual wars with it. It's so wild how there are all these Western liberals who think Trump is somehow worse than this, I don't even like the guy but these people obviously don't know shit about the history of the region. The history is China warring with these countries!

lenkite 1y ago
Do note that the 2020-21 conflict was not a "truly armed" conflict per-se. Unless you count biological, human arms with the occasional use of sticks. Most of it involved muscle power and no firearms. I personally find it remarkable that two large nations can have a border conflict without a single gunshot fired.
- safety1st 1y ago
  What? Per independent sources shots were fired and dozens were killed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%80%93India_skirmishes https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_China%E2%8...
  - lenkite 1y ago
    Warning shots into the air are fine. There are border agreements not to use firearms directly against soldiers. This was religiously followed by both sides - no one died because of gunshots.
  - porridgeraisin 1y ago
    The actual battle was hand+sticks "guerilla". All shots were warning shots and did not occur as part of the actual guerilla fight. The shots happened at multiple places in different times.
    - safety1st 1y ago
      Shots were fired along the LAC for the first time in 45 years and according to independent sources dozens were killed. So what if they weren't killed by the bullets? What is with this weird downplaying of the conflict? India/China tensions are high and they recently killed each other on their border!
      - kelipso 1y ago
        Modi just visited China earlier this month, last visit was 2019, so India-China relations are better now and tensions aren't that high anymore.
      - porridgeraisin 1y ago
        Yes yes.. the same article says they were all warning shots. Dozens were definitely killed... but in the guerilla fight. I was just making that part clear. No one is downplaying anything, there was a lot of animosity in india against china after that. Since it happened during the COVID lockdown, which was attributed to a wuhan lab leak at the time, the animosity intensified. It still exists today. Of course, animosity is irrelevant in geopolitics, so it is useless to try and reconcile this with varying levels of co-operation and friendly foreign ministry statements between the two countries in the 5 years since.
bamboozled 1y ago
I know the history, but then there is just cold hard current day reality you have to reckon with. I don't felt like you answered my question. Vietnam is going to be looking at the way the USA is treating it's allies right now and thinking seriously about the way forwards. If you think they're not asking themselves some pretty hard questions, I think you might be a bit deluded. I mean, do you truly think the USA will come to Vietnam's side if it's invaded by China? Honestly? look at all the whining about helping Ukraine and you think the current administration will enter a hot war with China over Vietnam? 90% of Americans wouldn't even know where that is. Regarding India and Russia, they're already allies, they already do significant trade, I'm not sure what you're reading but I don't think India is by default America first. They nuclear armed, so they have that "f u" card to play as well. I'm not based in the west either sorry. I wouldn't say I'm a "western liberal", I see you've already made up your mind though.
- safety1st 1y ago
  I mean, what is this stuff you're making up about the US and Vietnam being allies? Is that your head canon? What does Vietnam do as a part of this alliance? If you think those two countries were ever allies in any serious military or political sense you're deluded. The US is Vietnam's biggest customer and they changed the terms under which they're willing to buy stuff, that's all. You also better believe that when tensions flare up between Vietnam and China again, Vietnam will be begging the US for help. On a personal level I am American and the most annoying thing about living in Southeast Asia quite frankly is how much people here seem to think they deserve my money in exchange for selling me low quality shit I don't need or want. You can't have my money. Go away. We can end the relationship and I will be perfectly happy without you. It's amazing how this parallels foreign relations.
  - watwut 1y ago
    The point was not that they are allies. The point was that USA is very unreliable ally. They will promise things, take away what they want and won't deliver. It is an ally that sees allies as suckers and treats them badly. Basically, the point was that aspiring to be USA ally is not worth the effort.