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I make it a point not to use self-checkout systems because I want to support human interaction even if basic, and contribute to jobs for humans. And cash (most

I make it a point not to use self-checkout systems because I want to support human interaction even if basic, and contribute to jobs for humans. And cash (most self-checkouts here are card-only). I understand it’s a losing battle on all fronts.

moomoo11 1y ago
Don’t you think it’s selfish when a small minority of people hold on to some fading ideals in a world where people are genuinely better off with more efficiency? Like imagine being in the era when electricity was becoming more prevalent and I’m sure some people were complaining about some ideal then as well. That said I do agree that self checkouts should not be using methods beyond what’s reasonably necessary.
- nobody9999 1y ago
  >Don’t you think it’s selfish when a small minority of people hold on to some fading ideals in a world where people are genuinely better off with more efficiency? I'm all for more efficiency. Me fumbling with self-checkout is the opposite of efficiency. What's that? I should learn to do it better? How much would that cost in terms of both time and money? Multiply that by several hundred million, as compared with a few hundred thousand cashiers. You're saying that (x)250,000,000 < (x)500,000, where x = the cost in time and money to become proficient in checking stuff out. Is that correct? If so, your math seems a little off. AFAICT, the only folks who get the benefit of this "efficiency" are the store owners who, instead of paying folks to do the job, makes the customer do it instead. What's that? Those savings are passed along to the customer? Give me even one example of this being the case. I've certainly never seen it.
  - moomoo11 1y ago
    Peak efficiency is having someone else shop for you or just getting things delivered. That's what I do. I only go to whole Foods on Tue for the fun of seeing what’s on sale.
    - nobody9999 1y ago
      >Peak efficiency is having someone else shop for you or just getting things delivered. I do that as well. In fact, I have deliveries coming today. But some things I prefer to get from West Side Market and/or H-Mart, which are right nearby me because of the superior selection and my ability to choose specific products for myself.
rapnie 1y ago
Same. And indeed a losing battle. Society is being dehumanized, and humans embrace this trend. Maybe it is because it is a means to face away of all the big challenges humanity faces. Being social in complex society requires skill and effort, causes stress. Facing life challenges, and the doom and gloom. The easy way is to flee that, to extract oneself, and technology is bliss here.
- moomoo11 1y ago
  Why would I want to wait in line for 5 minutes, when I could be on my way? Life goes by fast. I’d rather spend those small minutes lost with my loved ones or back to doing things I enjoy more. Over my lifetime that’s a lot of time. I only shop in person at Whole Foods because it’s two blocks away. Every Tuesday they have some nice discounts and it’s fun to walk the aisles. Otherwise I just deliver groceries from Costco every 2 weeks or my Amazon prime subscriptions. Why continue purposefully at a disadvantage? Makes no sense.
  - rapnie 1y ago
    You wait in line because there weren't enough checkout points in the first place. Poor customer service by your supermarket. It is funny, in the supermarket near me people are coralled into a kind of scan barracks where underage teen guardians frisk their shoppings regularly. There is only one checkout with personnel still operating it. What regularly happens now is that there's a big crowd waiting for a free scan point, like cattle, while that one patient cashier is waiting idle. And will process the groceries much faster than any self-scanner can. Brave new world.
    - moomoo11 1y ago
      At least at my Whole Foods there are two cashiers and 6 self checkouts. Tuesdays are usually busy. Both have lines and the self is always faster. I’m that guy and I timed it myself when I was curious. Like I said. I don’t get it. They run a business. I just need some stuff and I’m outta there. I don’t really care beyond that exchange.
idiotsecant 1y ago
Do you also wish that elevators would go back to having attendants that drive you to your floor? When a job doesn't need people, keeping a person there is not some kind of noble gesture. It's annoying.
- gblargg 1y ago
  Or those backward states where you must let the gas station attendant pump your gas.
  - boobsbr 1y ago
    There are whole countries like that.
  - margalabargala 1y ago
    There's only one of those, New Jersey.
blitzar 1y ago
The experience of interacting with the checkout people makes me long for a future of less human interaction
- odie5533 1y ago
  Order online for delivery. Stop leaving your house.
  - blitzar 1y ago
    Delivery drivers are marginally better - but then the interaction has to occur on my doorstep.
AidenVennis 1y ago
Not sure if this is the same for the USA, but worker shortage is the main reason why self-checkout became popular here in Europe at least. Aging population, very low birthrate and higher educated people all contributed to this problem (although not for all countries in the EU).
- itake 1y ago
  In the USA, the self checkout line is easily 5x faster than the human line. Cities are growing, but the size or number of grocery stores is not.
  - ryandrake 1y ago
    This is only true because of having to wait in line for the checkout personnel. Once you get to the person, if they're even reasonably skilled, they can check out your groceries faster than you can. My local grocery store has something like 15 checkout aisles, and usually only have one or two open. If they manned each aisle, there would be no wait and self checkout would be pointless. But they are not going to staff properly because the CEO needs another yacht.
  - immibis 1y ago
    In Germany, the entire self-checkout section moves as fast as one human cashier (they're very skilled, this is no joke). And they have one human supervising it at all times. And it takes the space of two human cashier lines, so they double up one of the other lanes. At the end nothing is really gained except a little bit of privacy (but not really because the supervisor's terminal still shows everything you scan)
- octo888 1y ago
  > worker shortage is the main reason why self-checkout became popular here in Europe at least What exactly do you mean? That the companies moved to self checkout because they couldn't get the staff? Or people prefer self checkout because the manned tills are few in number? The first is very very hard to believe
drstewart 1y ago
This is why I don't understand people who support mandatory online / one-click subscription cancellation. Support jobs and require people to call-in to a human to cancel. That's a human-centred system that contributes to jobs.
- Squeeeez 1y ago
  For English, press one... There are - currently - three-hUndred-and--fifty-seven -- people - inthequeue. Please wait
TavsiE9s 1y ago
Same, I refuse to use them. I'm not going to support making cashiers redundant. On top of that I don't want to be in a position where I get accused of shoplifting when I forgot to scan something. I'm simply not trained on the 7+ different self-checkout terminals they have around here.
apt-apt-apt-apt 1y ago
This is exactly why I love to leave my carts out in front of the entrance and in the parking lot. Without me, there'd be no cart gatherer jobs. I once said this without stating it as a joke, but was surprised to find people enthusiastically agreeing with me. /s
Frost1x 1y ago
Yea, where’s the theft of my time and labor for now performing part of your business transaction process you should be performing by hiring staff to check me out. You don’t want to pay people to do that and put yourself in a higher theft situation, then you haggle the customer even more by treating them like a criminal. I had one of these happen at a self checkout the other day where the system did object tracking and it turns out I had many duplicate items to scan so I used the same item scan code to save time even though its weight system forces me to do one at a time I can at least have a prealigned code handy. I ended up doing some tricky hand switching between items (crossing over) while doing it quickly and that tripped up the object tracking system, so an employee came over and reviewed the video of my checkout right in front of me… at a grocery store for a $2 item. The anti consumer sentiment is high for an economy based so highly off consumerism.
- jolmg 1y ago
  > Yea, where’s the theft of my time and labor for now performing part of your business transaction process you should be performing by hiring staff to check me out. I've seen this sentiment in recent years, but with respect to time, self-checkout was always faster than human cashiers. You didn't need to wait while the cashiers did procedures like counting the money in the drawer and waiting for a supervisor to sign-off on it. The lines were unified so that your line was served by 4-8 checkouts rather than 1 cashier (or 2 as is the case with walmart). That meant that any issue with a particular customer e.g. arguing over pricing presented on the shelf vs on the system, needing to send someone out to verify the shelf, didn't affect the time you needed to wait as much. They were a very positive thing for customers when they were introduced. Basically, instead of having to get in a line of 3-6 people and having to wait for each of those to be served before you by one cashier, you just instantly check-out with usually no line. With respect to labor, it's basically the same. That's unless, in your part of the world, they let you use the self-checkout with huge quantities of groceries that need bagging. In my experience, there's (always?) a limit on the number of items for self-checkout.
  - joha4270 1y ago
    FWIW I have never encountered or even heard about a limit for self checkout here in Denmark.
CGMthrowaway 1y ago
Self-checkouts are not the only place where facial recognition is used. Of course overhead cameras have long been present at actual staffed checkout counters. The new risk today is that every credit card POS device has a camera built into it as well. I go around and put little black stickers over them when I encounter them. These cameras are well-hidden and not disclosed at all.

moomoo11 1y ago

Don’t you think it’s selfish when a small minority of people hold on to some fading ideals in a world where people are genuinely better off with more efficiency? Like imagine being in the era when electricity was becoming more prevalent and I’m sure some people were complaining about some ideal then as well. That said I do agree that self checkouts should not be using methods beyond what’s reasonably necessary.

nobody9999 1y ago
>Don’t you think it’s selfish when a small minority of people hold on to some fading ideals in a world where people are genuinely better off with more efficiency? I'm all for more efficiency. Me fumbling with self-checkout is the opposite of efficiency. What's that? I should learn to do it better? How much would that cost in terms of both time and money? Multiply that by several hundred million, as compared with a few hundred thousand cashiers. You're saying that (x)250,000,000 < (x)500,000, where x = the cost in time and money to become proficient in checking stuff out. Is that correct? If so, your math seems a little off. AFAICT, the only folks who get the benefit of this "efficiency" are the store owners who, instead of paying folks to do the job, makes the customer do it instead. What's that? Those savings are passed along to the customer? Give me even one example of this being the case. I've certainly never seen it.
- moomoo11 1y ago
  Peak efficiency is having someone else shop for you or just getting things delivered. That's what I do. I only go to whole Foods on Tue for the fun of seeing what’s on sale.
  - nobody9999 1y ago
    >Peak efficiency is having someone else shop for you or just getting things delivered. I do that as well. In fact, I have deliveries coming today. But some things I prefer to get from West Side Market and/or H-Mart, which are right nearby me because of the superior selection and my ability to choose specific products for myself.

rapnie 1y ago

Same. And indeed a losing battle. Society is being dehumanized, and humans embrace this trend. Maybe it is because it is a means to face away of all the big challenges humanity faces. Being social in complex society requires skill and effort, causes stress. Facing life challenges, and the doom and gloom. The easy way is to flee that, to extract oneself, and technology is bliss here.

moomoo11 1y ago
Why would I want to wait in line for 5 minutes, when I could be on my way? Life goes by fast. I’d rather spend those small minutes lost with my loved ones or back to doing things I enjoy more. Over my lifetime that’s a lot of time. I only shop in person at Whole Foods because it’s two blocks away. Every Tuesday they have some nice discounts and it’s fun to walk the aisles. Otherwise I just deliver groceries from Costco every 2 weeks or my Amazon prime subscriptions. Why continue purposefully at a disadvantage? Makes no sense.
- rapnie 1y ago
  You wait in line because there weren't enough checkout points in the first place. Poor customer service by your supermarket. It is funny, in the supermarket near me people are coralled into a kind of scan barracks where underage teen guardians frisk their shoppings regularly. There is only one checkout with personnel still operating it. What regularly happens now is that there's a big crowd waiting for a free scan point, like cattle, while that one patient cashier is waiting idle. And will process the groceries much faster than any self-scanner can. Brave new world.
  - moomoo11 1y ago
    At least at my Whole Foods there are two cashiers and 6 self checkouts. Tuesdays are usually busy. Both have lines and the self is always faster. I’m that guy and I timed it myself when I was curious. Like I said. I don’t get it. They run a business. I just need some stuff and I’m outta there. I don’t really care beyond that exchange.

idiotsecant 1y ago

Do you also wish that elevators would go back to having attendants that drive you to your floor? When a job doesn't need people, keeping a person there is not some kind of noble gesture. It's annoying.

gblargg 1y ago
Or those backward states where you must let the gas station attendant pump your gas.
- boobsbr 1y ago
  There are whole countries like that.
- margalabargala 1y ago
  There's only one of those, New Jersey.

blitzar 1y ago

The experience of interacting with the checkout people makes me long for a future of less human interaction

odie5533 1y ago
Order online for delivery. Stop leaving your house.
- blitzar 1y ago
  Delivery drivers are marginally better - but then the interaction has to occur on my doorstep.

AidenVennis 1y ago

Not sure if this is the same for the USA, but worker shortage is the main reason why self-checkout became popular here in Europe at least. Aging population, very low birthrate and higher educated people all contributed to this problem (although not for all countries in the EU).

itake 1y ago
In the USA, the self checkout line is easily 5x faster than the human line. Cities are growing, but the size or number of grocery stores is not.
- ryandrake 1y ago
  This is only true because of having to wait in line for the checkout personnel. Once you get to the person, if they're even reasonably skilled, they can check out your groceries faster than you can. My local grocery store has something like 15 checkout aisles, and usually only have one or two open. If they manned each aisle, there would be no wait and self checkout would be pointless. But they are not going to staff properly because the CEO needs another yacht.
- immibis 1y ago
  In Germany, the entire self-checkout section moves as fast as one human cashier (they're very skilled, this is no joke). And they have one human supervising it at all times. And it takes the space of two human cashier lines, so they double up one of the other lanes. At the end nothing is really gained except a little bit of privacy (but not really because the supervisor's terminal still shows everything you scan)
octo888 1y ago
> worker shortage is the main reason why self-checkout became popular here in Europe at least What exactly do you mean? That the companies moved to self checkout because they couldn't get the staff? Or people prefer self checkout because the manned tills are few in number? The first is very very hard to believe

drstewart 1y ago

This is why I don't understand people who support mandatory online / one-click subscription cancellation. Support jobs and require people to call-in to a human to cancel. That's a human-centred system that contributes to jobs.

Squeeeez 1y ago
For English, press one... There are - currently - three-hUndred-and--fifty-seven -- people - inthequeue. Please wait

TavsiE9s 1y ago

Same, I refuse to use them. I'm not going to support making cashiers redundant. On top of that I don't want to be in a position where I get accused of shoplifting when I forgot to scan something. I'm simply not trained on the 7+ different self-checkout terminals they have around here.

apt-apt-apt-apt 1y ago

This is exactly why I love to leave my carts out in front of the entrance and in the parking lot. Without me, there'd be no cart gatherer jobs. I once said this without stating it as a joke, but was surprised to find people enthusiastically agreeing with me. /s

Frost1x 1y ago

Yea, where’s the theft of my time and labor for now performing part of your business transaction process you should be performing by hiring staff to check me out. You don’t want to pay people to do that and put yourself in a higher theft situation, then you haggle the customer even more by treating them like a criminal. I had one of these happen at a self checkout the other day where the system did object tracking and it turns out I had many duplicate items to scan so I used the same item scan code to save time even though its weight system forces me to do one at a time I can at least have a prealigned code handy. I ended up doing some tricky hand switching between items (crossing over) while doing it quickly and that tripped up the object tracking system, so an employee came over and reviewed the video of my checkout right in front of me… at a grocery store for a $2 item. The anti consumer sentiment is high for an economy based so highly off consumerism.

jolmg 1y ago
> Yea, where’s the theft of my time and labor for now performing part of your business transaction process you should be performing by hiring staff to check me out. I've seen this sentiment in recent years, but with respect to time, self-checkout was always faster than human cashiers. You didn't need to wait while the cashiers did procedures like counting the money in the drawer and waiting for a supervisor to sign-off on it. The lines were unified so that your line was served by 4-8 checkouts rather than 1 cashier (or 2 as is the case with walmart). That meant that any issue with a particular customer e.g. arguing over pricing presented on the shelf vs on the system, needing to send someone out to verify the shelf, didn't affect the time you needed to wait as much. They were a very positive thing for customers when they were introduced. Basically, instead of having to get in a line of 3-6 people and having to wait for each of those to be served before you by one cashier, you just instantly check-out with usually no line. With respect to labor, it's basically the same. That's unless, in your part of the world, they let you use the self-checkout with huge quantities of groceries that need bagging. In my experience, there's (always?) a limit on the number of items for self-checkout.
- joha4270 1y ago
  FWIW I have never encountered or even heard about a limit for self checkout here in Denmark.

CGMthrowaway 1y ago

Self-checkouts are not the only place where facial recognition is used. Of course overhead cameras have long been present at actual staffed checkout counters. The new risk today is that every credit card POS device has a camera built into it as well. I go around and put little black stickers over them when I encounter them. These cameras are well-hidden and not disclosed at all.