12 ms·

"lo tirtzach (do not murder) and tzedek tzedek tirdof (justice, justice shall you pursue) "

by KnuthIsGod 1y ago

pfannkuchen 1y ago
Historically, don’t most moral codes only apply to the in group?
- nielsbot 1y ago
  Hopefully we've evolved.
  - pfannkuchen 1y ago
    It makes complete sense that people feel that way. European and Euro derived cultures are universalist from Christianity. But universalism isn’t the norm for moral systems throughout history. We only feel like universalism is best because it permeates the morality we grew up with.
- stephen_g 1y ago
  Not the Torah - e.g. “[18] He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing. [19] Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.” Deuteronomy 10:18-19 (ESV)
  - pfannkuchen 1y ago
    And the New Testament says all kinds of things Christians don’t follow in practice as well.
  - Cordiali 1y ago
    Regarding the second one, variations of that, to help or protect strangers/travellers, seems to have been relatively common across a variety of historical cultures. Tangentially, it also reminds me of a woman's grave that was found in Denmark I think. I can't remember how old the grave was, but something like 3-4000 years. They were able to use isotope analysis of her teeth, hair, stomach contents, etc. to trace her movements. She was from the area, but in the last year of her life, she'd travelled down to around Switzerland and back. There was a documentary about it, I'll see if I can find it...
    - pfannkuchen 1y ago
      Tangential, but I am always skeptical of these sorts of reconstructed stories when they rely on purely academic methods such as ancient stomach contents analysis and inferred historical geographic flora. Like, if that’s wrong somehow, how would you know, exactly? Both of those examples are fundamentally non-verifiable.
      - Cordiali 1y ago
        You can check if there's agreement between different techniques. Tooth enamel would be a pretty trustworthy source of information, for example. It just depends on what level of confidence you want in the results. I'm personally comfortable with a "probable" or "it's likely that" in my history docos. I'm a lot less comfortable with that standard when it comes to planes, trains, and automobiles.
        pfannkuchen 1y ago
        That makes sense to me and I’m comfortable with redundant agreeing evidence as well (assuming we don’t ignore any contradictory evidence), but my impression is that these fields do not consistently have such a standard. Maybe my impression is wrong? To me it seems like you need to crawl through the dependency chain and verify that reasonable standards were used all the way up. Does the peer review process in these fields actually enforce this? It seems like no, but I am just a spectator.
    - Cordiali 1y ago
      Well... I'm not sure which bog body it was, there were a few! It might've been the 'Haraldskær Woman', I found an article [1] about her which roughly matches my recollections, and is from around the same time I would've seen the documentary. Although she might've only travelled as far as central Germany. [1]: https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/4407 https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/4407
- bryanrasmussen 1y ago
  there are in most primitive moral codes requirements to welcome strangers and give them hospitality, this is a chance to make an out member come in of course, but there are the truly out - enemies that you are not required to treat nicely.
nivertech 1y ago
.
- Gibbon1 1y ago
  I'm not sure what to say about people that encourage other people to keep starting wars they can't win instead of cutting a deal. While being at no personal risk themselves.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]

"lo tirtzach (do not murder) and tzedek tzedek tirdof (justice, justice shall you pursue) "

pfannkuchen 1y ago

Historically, don’t most moral codes only apply to the in group?

nielsbot 1y ago
Hopefully we've evolved.
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  It makes complete sense that people feel that way. European and Euro derived cultures are universalist from Christianity. But universalism isn’t the norm for moral systems throughout history. We only feel like universalism is best because it permeates the morality we grew up with.
stephen_g 1y ago
Not the Torah - e.g. “[18] He executes justice for the fatherless and the widow, and loves the sojourner, giving him food and clothing. [19] Love the sojourner, therefore, for you were sojourners in the land of Egypt.” Deuteronomy 10:18-19 (ESV)
- pfannkuchen 1y ago
  And the New Testament says all kinds of things Christians don’t follow in practice as well.
- Cordiali 1y ago
  Regarding the second one, variations of that, to help or protect strangers/travellers, seems to have been relatively common across a variety of historical cultures. Tangentially, it also reminds me of a woman's grave that was found in Denmark I think. I can't remember how old the grave was, but something like 3-4000 years. They were able to use isotope analysis of her teeth, hair, stomach contents, etc. to trace her movements. She was from the area, but in the last year of her life, she'd travelled down to around Switzerland and back. There was a documentary about it, I'll see if I can find it...
  - pfannkuchen 1y ago
    Tangential, but I am always skeptical of these sorts of reconstructed stories when they rely on purely academic methods such as ancient stomach contents analysis and inferred historical geographic flora. Like, if that’s wrong somehow, how would you know, exactly? Both of those examples are fundamentally non-verifiable.
    - Cordiali 1y ago
      You can check if there's agreement between different techniques. Tooth enamel would be a pretty trustworthy source of information, for example. It just depends on what level of confidence you want in the results. I'm personally comfortable with a "probable" or "it's likely that" in my history docos. I'm a lot less comfortable with that standard when it comes to planes, trains, and automobiles.
      - pfannkuchen 1y ago
        That makes sense to me and I’m comfortable with redundant agreeing evidence as well (assuming we don’t ignore any contradictory evidence), but my impression is that these fields do not consistently have such a standard. Maybe my impression is wrong? To me it seems like you need to crawl through the dependency chain and verify that reasonable standards were used all the way up. Does the peer review process in these fields actually enforce this? It seems like no, but I am just a spectator.
  - Cordiali 1y ago
    Well... I'm not sure which bog body it was, there were a few! It might've been the 'Haraldskær Woman', I found an article [1] about her which roughly matches my recollections, and is from around the same time I would've seen the documentary. Although she might've only travelled as far as central Germany. [1]: https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/4407 https://journals.openedition.org/archeosciences/4407
bryanrasmussen 1y ago
there are in most primitive moral codes requirements to welcome strangers and give them hospitality, this is a chance to make an out member come in of course, but there are the truly out - enemies that you are not required to treat nicely.

nivertech 1y ago

Gibbon1 1y ago
I'm not sure what to say about people that encourage other people to keep starting wars they can't win instead of cutting a deal. While being at no personal risk themselves.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]