5 ms·

I like this but can we stop calling product telemetry “spyware” please.

by st3fan 1y ago

JoshTriplett 1y ago
Why? Any non-opt-in product telemetry is spyware, and you have no idea what they'll do with the data. And if it's an AI company, there's an obvious thing for them to do with it. (Opt-in telemetry is much more reasonable, if it's clear what they're doing with it.)
- mgsloan2 1y ago
  Collection of data from code completions is off by default and opt-in. It also only collects data when one of several allowlisted opensource licenses are present in the worktree root. Options to disable crash reports and anonymous usage info are presented prominently when Zed is first opened, and can of course be configured in settings too.
jart 1y ago
It kind of is. I don't want Richard Stallman knowing every time I open a file in emacs or run the ls command. Keep that crap out of local software. There should be better ways to get adoption metrics for your investors, like creating a package manager for your software, or partnering with security companies like Wiz. If you have telemetry, make it opt-in, and help users understand that it benefits them by being a vote in what bugs get fixed and what features get focused on. Then publish public reports that aggregate the telemetry data for transparency like Mozilla and Debian.
- hiccuphippo 1y ago
  It is a tool for developers. Give them a link to your bug tracker and let them tell you themselves.
  - jart 1y ago
    People file issues when they're unhappy. If that's you're only vantage point you're gonna be crying yourself to sleep each night.
max-privatevoid 1y ago
We can stop calling it spyware once it is not spyware (will never happen).
ionelaipatioaei 1y ago
It is spyware tho.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
barnabee 1y ago
No. It's spyware. Software authors/vendors have no right to collect telemetry and it ought to be illegal to have any such data collection and/or exfiltration running on a user's device by default or without explicit, opt-in consent.
- rendx 1y ago
  It already is in Europe thanks to GDPR. Just not enough formal complaints or lawsuits (yet); e.g. IP addresses are explicitly Personally Identifiable Information.
foresto 1y ago
If it collects information from someone, and they don't want it to, then it is spying. I am deeply disappointed in how often I encounter social pressure, condescending comments, license terms, dark patterns, confidentiality assurances, anonymization claims, and linguistic gymnastics trying to either convince me otherwise or publicly discredit me for pointing it out. No amount of those things will change the fact that it is spyware, but they do make the world an even worse place than the spyware itself does, and they do make clear that the people behind them are hostile actors. No, we will not stop calling it what it is.

I like this but can we stop calling product telemetry “spyware” please.

by st3fan 1y ago

I like this but can we stop calling product telemetry “spyware” please.

Why? Any non-opt-in product telemetry is spyware, and you have no idea what they'll do with the data. And if it's an AI company, there's an obvious thing for them to do with it. (Opt-in telemetry is much more reasonable, if it's clear what they're doing with it.)

mgsloan2 1y ago
Collection of data from code completions is off by default and opt-in. It also only collects data when one of several allowlisted opensource licenses are present in the worktree root. Options to disable crash reports and anonymous usage info are presented prominently when Zed is first opened, and can of course be configured in settings too.

jart 1y ago

It kind of is. I don't want Richard Stallman knowing every time I open a file in emacs or run the ls command. Keep that crap out of local software. There should be better ways to get adoption metrics for your investors, like creating a package manager for your software, or partnering with security companies like Wiz. If you have telemetry, make it opt-in, and help users understand that it benefits them by being a vote in what bugs get fixed and what features get focused on. Then publish public reports that aggregate the telemetry data for transparency like Mozilla and Debian.

hiccuphippo 1y ago
It is a tool for developers. Give them a link to your bug tracker and let them tell you themselves.
- jart 1y ago
  People file issues when they're unhappy. If that's you're only vantage point you're gonna be crying yourself to sleep each night.

max-privatevoid 1y ago

We can stop calling it spyware once it is not spyware (will never happen).

ionelaipatioaei 1y ago

It is spyware tho.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

barnabee 1y ago

No. It's spyware. Software authors/vendors have no right to collect telemetry and it ought to be illegal to have any such data collection and/or exfiltration running on a user's device by default or without explicit, opt-in consent.

rendx 1y ago
It already is in Europe thanks to GDPR. Just not enough formal complaints or lawsuits (yet); e.g. IP addresses are explicitly Personally Identifiable Information.

foresto 1y ago

If it collects information from someone, and they don't want it to, then it is spying. I am deeply disappointed in how often I encounter social pressure, condescending comments, license terms, dark patterns, confidentiality assurances, anonymization claims, and linguistic gymnastics trying to either convince me otherwise or publicly discredit me for pointing it out. No amount of those things will change the fact that it is spyware, but they do make the world an even worse place than the spyware itself does, and they do make clear that the people behind them are hostile actors. No, we will not stop calling it what it is.