4 ms·

The context of my post was phone searches at the US border, inmigration is a wide scope, strip searching tourists and interrogating about jokes is really out of

The context of my post was phone searches at the US border, inmigration is a wide scope, strip searching tourists and interrogating about jokes is really out of context and not was was the topic of the article shared. Searching phones is not really related to reviewing social media is it? You don't need to search a phone to access a public profile. No, searching a phone searches for private messages, maybe you talked with an employer on the US and you are on a tourist visa? Maybe there's talks about drug use or money laundering? or worse? >If you are talking about people working in the US without visas, this is a serious misconception. You talk as if there were some sort of authorative objective dataset, but by nature, how can you measure unreported income? You can search for FUTON sources all you want, but I've worked with immigrants that don't report income on my country. And just because something "doesn't happen" would be a terribe reason not to protect against it. Would you leave your port 22 open without password just because "it is a misconception" that russians are brute forcing into systems? No, you would simply protect against it, you don't need evidence to implement security mesaures.

text0404 1y ago
Where are your numbers? You're claiming that immigrants steal public services and don't pay taxes, but haven't provided proof except for anecdotes and conjecture.
- TZubiri 1y ago
  I have met one immigrant that didn't pay taxes, which is sufficient to develop and support measures to protect against immigrants. Also, you do not need evidence to claim that there is at least one immigrant who doesn't pay taxes, given the sheer numbers of our countries and the economic incentive to pay taxes, the burden of proof would be reversed if you claim that this doesn't happen. Not everything needs a double-blind randomized longitudinal trial, sometimes you just need to act instead of being paralyzed by overanalysis of the obvious.
  - deleted 1y ago
    [deleted]
  - text0404 1y ago
    So you have no data and no evidence, and are willing to support sweeping policy changes which cause material harm because you feel correct.
    - TZubiri 1y ago
      No policy changes, the laws are in place, I just support the executive, the judicial and the armed forces that implement the law.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - text0404 1y ago
        ... so still supporting policies which cause material harm, based on your feelings.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
1659447091 1y ago
> ... as if there were some sort of authorative objective dataset, but by nature, how can you measure unreported income? Citizen also take cash jobs and don't report the income, yet they have more options and access to resources. Unlike undocumented persons. I'm guessing you feel the same about citizens dodging their tax responsibilities at least as strongly as you do undocumented workers. See the end for a solution, for the undocumented at least. See [0] for a breakdown of taxes and contributions.$19.5B in Federal Income tax, $32.3B in Social Insurances taxes payed through automatic withholding from their paychecks in 2022. They are not getting jobs where they would owe at the end of the year. They pay the same sales and excise taxes on goods and services, property taxes on renting/owning etc. $96.7B total taxes paid in 2022. Some use "borrowed" SSN (usually provided by the employer or employer referred source), they don't get to file for a refund; some use ITINs and are also likely forgo refunds thus pay more taxes than a similarly employed citizen while losing out on benefits they are supposedly "stealing". They have no way to access social security. A 2006 study showed they contributed so much to Texas' GDP that Texas refuses to conduct further studies on their economic impact [1] A Texas economic analysis firm in 2016 estimated a contribution of $11.8B to the state after subtracting $3.1 B the state spent for their health, education, other public services.[2] The simple solution is access to work authorization. They trade being exploited by employers to paying more taxes for that security. If citizens wanted the jobs they do we would not have a chronic shortage of workers in those positions, Notably hospice and construction. [0] https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2024/12/06/texas-undocumented-immigrants-economic-contributions-outweigh-costs/ https://www.texastribune.org/2024/12/06/texas-undocumented-i... [2] https://www.perrymangroup.com/media/uploads/report/perryman-texas-needs-the-workers-01-29-16.pdf https://www.perrymangroup.com/media/uploads/report/perryman-...
- TZubiri 1y ago
  > I'm guessing you feel the same about citizens dodging their tax responsibilities at least as strongly as you do undocumented workers No, it's not the same. Immigrants can be deported, which is not the case for citizens by birthright. Additionally birthright citizens have not opted to be born in their country, however immigrants have made the choice to be in their country of destiny, so they are in a much weaker moral and legal position to justify tax evasion. Not the same at all.

text0404 1y ago

Where are your numbers? You're claiming that immigrants steal public services and don't pay taxes, but haven't provided proof except for anecdotes and conjecture.

TZubiri 1y ago
I have met one immigrant that didn't pay taxes, which is sufficient to develop and support measures to protect against immigrants. Also, you do not need evidence to claim that there is at least one immigrant who doesn't pay taxes, given the sheer numbers of our countries and the economic incentive to pay taxes, the burden of proof would be reversed if you claim that this doesn't happen. Not everything needs a double-blind randomized longitudinal trial, sometimes you just need to act instead of being paralyzed by overanalysis of the obvious.
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
- text0404 1y ago
  So you have no data and no evidence, and are willing to support sweeping policy changes which cause material harm because you feel correct.
  - TZubiri 1y ago
    No policy changes, the laws are in place, I just support the executive, the judicial and the armed forces that implement the law.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - text0404 1y ago
      ... so still supporting policies which cause material harm, based on your feelings.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

1659447091 1y ago

> ... as if there were some sort of authorative objective dataset, but by nature, how can you measure unreported income? Citizen also take cash jobs and don't report the income, yet they have more options and access to resources. Unlike undocumented persons. I'm guessing you feel the same about citizens dodging their tax responsibilities at least as strongly as you do undocumented workers. See the end for a solution, for the undocumented at least. See [0] for a breakdown of taxes and contributions.$19.5B in Federal Income tax, $32.3B in Social Insurances taxes payed through automatic withholding from their paychecks in 2022. They are not getting jobs where they would owe at the end of the year. They pay the same sales and excise taxes on goods and services, property taxes on renting/owning etc. $96.7B total taxes paid in 2022. Some use "borrowed" SSN (usually provided by the employer or employer referred source), they don't get to file for a refund; some use ITINs and are also likely forgo refunds thus pay more taxes than a similarly employed citizen while losing out on benefits they are supposedly "stealing". They have no way to access social security. A 2006 study showed they contributed so much to Texas' GDP that Texas refuses to conduct further studies on their economic impact [1] A Texas economic analysis firm in 2016 estimated a contribution of $11.8B to the state after subtracting $3.1 B the state spent for their health, education, other public services.[2] The simple solution is access to work authorization. They trade being exploited by employers to paying more taxes for that security. If citizens wanted the jobs they do we would not have a chronic shortage of workers in those positions, Notably hospice and construction. [0] https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/ [1] https://www.texastribune.org/2024/12/06/texas-undocumented-immigrants-economic-contributions-outweigh-costs/ https://www.texastribune.org/2024/12/06/texas-undocumented-i... [2] https://www.perrymangroup.com/media/uploads/report/perryman-texas-needs-the-workers-01-29-16.pdf https://www.perrymangroup.com/media/uploads/report/perryman-...

TZubiri 1y ago
> I'm guessing you feel the same about citizens dodging their tax responsibilities at least as strongly as you do undocumented workers No, it's not the same. Immigrants can be deported, which is not the case for citizens by birthright. Additionally birthright citizens have not opted to be born in their country, however immigrants have made the choice to be in their country of destiny, so they are in a much weaker moral and legal position to justify tax evasion. Not the same at all.