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>NSA science departments being demolished is lowkey great news; as a European Ironic to read this gloat, given the new spyware, chat control and anti online pr

>NSA science departments being demolished is lowkey great news; as a European Ironic to read this gloat, given the new spyware, chat control and anti online privacy acts that the EU countries are pushing for, which will also be achieved using US/Israeli tech instead of domestically developed one, because the EU has none. So your tax money will go to the US big-tech(again!) so that your government can spy on you. I don't think this is something to be happy about just because hey at least the US has domestic issues.

tucnak 1y ago
Ironic that you should mention Chat Control, given that the most powerful parties behind Chat Control are all backed by the U.S. (mostly Washington guys targeting EU bureaucrats exclusively, and never targeting U.S. policy-makers in the first place) such as Thorn, weProtect, etc. known to be affiliated with State Dept. and to a lesser extent, the NSA. Thorn has been lobbying for Chat Control since 2012, and it's crawling with U.S. spooks. There's barely enough plausible deniability, but not enough to fool the journos: https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the-eus-fight-over-scanning-for-child-sex-content/ https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the...
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  >the most powerful parties behind Chat Control are all backed by the U.S. Of course the US would benefit from EU's chat control. Duh! Nothing eye opening in your comment. That's like being surprised the shovel makers benefit from a gold rush. If the EU started the demand, the US will happily supply because otherwise someone else will. However, my biggest problem as an EU citizen is the fact that the EU is implementing chat control in the first, not that the US is happily supplying it since the US government is not accountable to me, but sadly it seems mine isn't either. > and never targeting U.S. policy-makers in the first place Why would they shit where they eat or bite the hand that feeds them?
  - tucnak 1y ago
    The point is the EU would never attempt implementing Chat Control if it weren't for U.S. constant meddling in the matter. You could make a case that the U.S. spooks are the ones politically implementing Chat Control in the first place! It's hard to blame EU bureaucrats. The U.S. doesn't export SIGINT, it simply DOES it, and at best throws its friends a few bones once in a while. There is no organic demand for this shit in the EU. US lobbying just finds a way, and the U.S. spooks are simply too good at disguising clandestine activities as lobbying. I find it hard to root for this kind of interference.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      >The point is the EU would never attempt implementing Chat Control if it weren't for U.S. constant meddling in the matter. 100% false. It's not like the EU is some tiny third world banana republic under US colonialism that has zero say in how it runs its domestic affairs. So please let's start holding our own politicians accountable for their actions instead of moving the blaming to external factors we can't control since accountability is their biggest enemy. > It's hard to blame EU bureaucrats. It is VERY easy to blame them, I'm doing it right now because they're MY civil servants paid from MY taxes and should do what's best for me. They can easily drop the chat control if they want to. But they won't because they made unpopular decisions in the last ~20 years that ended up negatively affecting the working class population, so democracy and freedom of speech is now a threat to them so they seek to control what I see and what I say so they protect their wealth, status and power.
      - tucnak 1y ago
        You give politicians far too much credit. There is one driving force behind all Chat Control legislation, and it's the U.S. This is established fact. The only reason it hasn't been passed in the EU is precisely because EU citizens are fighting it. On a different note, to speak of accountability in 2025 is a bit silly: there's none, and it's been like this for years. I dislike EU politicians as much as the next guy, but the real issue is not that they govern too much, it's that they govern too little, and have very little appetite for actual governing. (I subscribe to view of Dominic Cummings on the matter.) This is the reason why they'd allowed themselves to be overrun by the U.S.
Yeul 1y ago
Europe is not like the US. There is no god emperor Trump or ruling party. So we'll see if they can get it through European Parliament.
- FirmwareBurner 1y ago
  American people voted for Trump who won by majority democratic vote. Just because you don't like that your proffered candidate lost the democratic election, doesn't mean Trump is now "the emperor". He's a clown sure, but he's the clown people elected, he's their clown for better or worse, and in 3 years they can choose another one. Meanwhile European citizens didn't vote for the corrupt Ursula "Censura" v.d. Leyen, yet she represents the EU citizens on the international stage but they can't vote her out no matter how much they hate her, so it's ironic to virtue signal to Americans about democracy from that position. Plus many European countries are still actual monarchies, with kings and queens. So who's the one under actual emperor rule here?
  - Terr_ 1y ago
    > Trump who won by majority democratic vote. Untrue, Trump failed to achieve a majority of the popular vote (which doesn't determine the US president), only a plurality. That only US President elected with a lower percentage in the last 25 years was... also Trump, in 2016.
    - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
      Where do you get your sources? Trump won the popular vote in 2024.
      - deleted 1y ago
        [deleted]
      - Terr_ 1y ago
        I suggest you get a refreshing night's sleep and re-read things in the morning. You originally said something different and more-specific, something contradicted by all official records.

tucnak 1y ago

Ironic that you should mention Chat Control, given that the most powerful parties behind Chat Control are all backed by the U.S. (mostly Washington guys targeting EU bureaucrats exclusively, and never targeting U.S. policy-makers in the first place) such as Thorn, weProtect, etc. known to be affiliated with State Dept. and to a lesser extent, the NSA. Thorn has been lobbying for Chat Control since 2012, and it's crawling with U.S. spooks. There's barely enough plausible deniability, but not enough to fool the journos: https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the-eus-fight-over-scanning-for-child-sex-content/ https://balkaninsight.com/2023/09/25/who-benefits-inside-the...

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
>the most powerful parties behind Chat Control are all backed by the U.S. Of course the US would benefit from EU's chat control. Duh! Nothing eye opening in your comment. That's like being surprised the shovel makers benefit from a gold rush. If the EU started the demand, the US will happily supply because otherwise someone else will. However, my biggest problem as an EU citizen is the fact that the EU is implementing chat control in the first, not that the US is happily supplying it since the US government is not accountable to me, but sadly it seems mine isn't either. > and never targeting U.S. policy-makers in the first place Why would they shit where they eat or bite the hand that feeds them?
- tucnak 1y ago
  The point is the EU would never attempt implementing Chat Control if it weren't for U.S. constant meddling in the matter. You could make a case that the U.S. spooks are the ones politically implementing Chat Control in the first place! It's hard to blame EU bureaucrats. The U.S. doesn't export SIGINT, it simply DOES it, and at best throws its friends a few bones once in a while. There is no organic demand for this shit in the EU. US lobbying just finds a way, and the U.S. spooks are simply too good at disguising clandestine activities as lobbying. I find it hard to root for this kind of interference.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    >The point is the EU would never attempt implementing Chat Control if it weren't for U.S. constant meddling in the matter. 100% false. It's not like the EU is some tiny third world banana republic under US colonialism that has zero say in how it runs its domestic affairs. So please let's start holding our own politicians accountable for their actions instead of moving the blaming to external factors we can't control since accountability is their biggest enemy. > It's hard to blame EU bureaucrats. It is VERY easy to blame them, I'm doing it right now because they're MY civil servants paid from MY taxes and should do what's best for me. They can easily drop the chat control if they want to. But they won't because they made unpopular decisions in the last ~20 years that ended up negatively affecting the working class population, so democracy and freedom of speech is now a threat to them so they seek to control what I see and what I say so they protect their wealth, status and power.
    - tucnak 1y ago
      You give politicians far too much credit. There is one driving force behind all Chat Control legislation, and it's the U.S. This is established fact. The only reason it hasn't been passed in the EU is precisely because EU citizens are fighting it. On a different note, to speak of accountability in 2025 is a bit silly: there's none, and it's been like this for years. I dislike EU politicians as much as the next guy, but the real issue is not that they govern too much, it's that they govern too little, and have very little appetite for actual governing. (I subscribe to view of Dominic Cummings on the matter.) This is the reason why they'd allowed themselves to be overrun by the U.S.

Yeul 1y ago

Europe is not like the US. There is no god emperor Trump or ruling party. So we'll see if they can get it through European Parliament.

FirmwareBurner 1y ago
American people voted for Trump who won by majority democratic vote. Just because you don't like that your proffered candidate lost the democratic election, doesn't mean Trump is now "the emperor". He's a clown sure, but he's the clown people elected, he's their clown for better or worse, and in 3 years they can choose another one. Meanwhile European citizens didn't vote for the corrupt Ursula "Censura" v.d. Leyen, yet she represents the EU citizens on the international stage but they can't vote her out no matter how much they hate her, so it's ironic to virtue signal to Americans about democracy from that position. Plus many European countries are still actual monarchies, with kings and queens. So who's the one under actual emperor rule here?
- Terr_ 1y ago
  > Trump who won by majority democratic vote. Untrue, Trump failed to achieve a majority of the popular vote (which doesn't determine the US president), only a plurality. That only US President elected with a lower percentage in the last 25 years was... also Trump, in 2016.
  - FirmwareBurner 1y ago
    Where do you get your sources? Trump won the popular vote in 2024.
    - deleted 1y ago
      [deleted]
    - Terr_ 1y ago
      I suggest you get a refreshing night's sleep and re-read things in the morning. You originally said something different and more-specific, something contradicted by all official records.