3 ms·

I don't see an architectural alternative for such services yet. You'd need a client side app sandbox which allows servers to schedule routines to run locally on

I don't see an architectural alternative for such services yet. You'd need a client side app sandbox which allows servers to schedule routines to run locally on secret data, without leaking back data which the server can decrypt. It would also need to be cross-platform and have the same user accessibility as the web browser.

moe 14y ago
You'd need a client side app sandbox [...] Or you could use, you know, a native client. It may increasingly become a foreign concept to the "facebook generation" but your computer is still fully capable of running a mail client on its own. Of course you don't get to sell SaaS-subscriptions when you implement tray.io as a procmail GUI...
- 16s 14y ago
  +1 for procmail and having the sense about you to manage these things yourself rather than trading your privacy for a bit of convenience.
- davidhollander 14y ago
  A native client without a user data sandbox doesn't solve the problem of networked applications leaking private data and spying on the user at all. The code needs to be open source, versioned, vetted, and only obtained via a trusted repository for every application the user wants to run each time it is updated. The user is no longer instantly able to access the latest version of the application by simply typing in a URI.
  - moe 14y ago
    I meant it tongue-in-cheek when I said "facebook generation", but it seems we really have a generational gap here. The code needs to be open source, versioned, vetted, and only obtained via a trusted repository http://www.procmail.org http://www.procmail.org http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/ http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/ http://www.mutt.org/ http://www.mutt.org/ The user is no longer instantly able to access the latest version of the application by simply typing in a URI. Yes, that actually bothers me a lot. Can you imagine the crazy effort that I go through every time I update my mail-client? It takes the better part of 5 minutes every time (I'm not exaggerating here) and last year I had to do it twice!
    - davidhollander 14y ago
      Would you be comfortable explaining to relatives, aquantainces, and the elderly in a casual conversation: How to install, use, and maintain linux. How to install, use, and maintain their own mail server and spam filters. How PGP works. How to setup and use thunderbird+enigimail or mutt. Compared to visiting a URI, would doing so be more technically demanding or less technically demanding for users who have not specialized in computing? Is the proportion of society which inevitably chooses not to specialize in a computing inherently more deserving or inherently less deserving of the benefits of encryption and privacy? I think the gap in our perspective is most likely attributable to A) how widespread we wish to see encryption used by the general public in the future, or B) our expectations of the of the technical stamina of the general public when confronted with unfamiliar tasks, rather than generational effects.
      - moe 14y ago
        Nobody talked about encryption. Nobody talked about "elderly acquaintances". The conversation was about a product aimed squarely at GMail "Power-Users" who willfully run all their e-mail through one or more third partys. And besides, you don't need to linux to run a mail program.

moe 14y ago

You'd need a client side app sandbox [...] Or you could use, you know, a native client. It may increasingly become a foreign concept to the "facebook generation" but your computer is still fully capable of running a mail client on its own. Of course you don't get to sell SaaS-subscriptions when you implement tray.io as a procmail GUI...

16s 14y ago
+1 for procmail and having the sense about you to manage these things yourself rather than trading your privacy for a bit of convenience.
davidhollander 14y ago
A native client without a user data sandbox doesn't solve the problem of networked applications leaking private data and spying on the user at all. The code needs to be open source, versioned, vetted, and only obtained via a trusted repository for every application the user wants to run each time it is updated. The user is no longer instantly able to access the latest version of the application by simply typing in a URI.
- moe 14y ago
  I meant it tongue-in-cheek when I said "facebook generation", but it seems we really have a generational gap here. The code needs to be open source, versioned, vetted, and only obtained via a trusted repository http://www.procmail.org http://www.procmail.org http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/ http://www.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/ http://www.mutt.org/ http://www.mutt.org/ The user is no longer instantly able to access the latest version of the application by simply typing in a URI. Yes, that actually bothers me a lot. Can you imagine the crazy effort that I go through every time I update my mail-client? It takes the better part of 5 minutes every time (I'm not exaggerating here) and last year I had to do it twice!
  - davidhollander 14y ago
    Would you be comfortable explaining to relatives, aquantainces, and the elderly in a casual conversation: How to install, use, and maintain linux. How to install, use, and maintain their own mail server and spam filters. How PGP works. How to setup and use thunderbird+enigimail or mutt. Compared to visiting a URI, would doing so be more technically demanding or less technically demanding for users who have not specialized in computing? Is the proportion of society which inevitably chooses not to specialize in a computing inherently more deserving or inherently less deserving of the benefits of encryption and privacy? I think the gap in our perspective is most likely attributable to A) how widespread we wish to see encryption used by the general public in the future, or B) our expectations of the of the technical stamina of the general public when confronted with unfamiliar tasks, rather than generational effects.
    - moe 14y ago
      Nobody talked about encryption. Nobody talked about "elderly acquaintances". The conversation was about a product aimed squarely at GMail "Power-Users" who willfully run all their e-mail through one or more third partys. And besides, you don't need to linux to run a mail program.