4 ms·

It's an interesting article, but a horrible title... As if to say the impact fathers have after conception doesn't 'really' matter...

philwelch 14y ago
It's part of the casual misandry that permeates our culture.
- winter_blue 14y ago
  I agree with you to an extent; fathers are often seen as incapable of raising children in American culture. However, do you know if there is any literature or articles/discussion on this? (In particular about how fathers are seen, and more broadly on the misandry.)
  - mtrimpe 14y ago
    A little tough to get a hold of and to read, but The Myth of Masculinity by Joseph Pleck [http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Masculinity-Joseph-Pleck/dp/0262660504 http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Masculinity-Joseph-Pleck/dp/0...] is by far the most thorough take on male masculinity I've ever read.
  - victorhn 14y ago
    Here is an excellent blog post: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.h...
  - 001sky 14y ago
    Nietzsche: Beyond Good and Evil [1] --Way ahead of its time. _________ [1] "Supposing truth was a woman, what then..." Is the opening line. Not for the faint of heart, though.
- s_baby 14y ago
  According to Warren Farrell NYTimes is systematic and deliberate in perpetuating misandry. This is coming from a man who was both a founding member in a major feminist organization(N.O.W) and a writer for the NYTimes. http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0610farrell.html http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0610f...
  - marvin 14y ago
    The New York Times isn't the only media organization guilty of this. It is systemic in a lot of Western media outlets, small as well as large. Interesting to hear it pointed out by someone who cannot credibly be acused of being ignorant of gender questions, though.
    - s_baby 14y ago
      Something to keep in mind when the blogosphere lights up about how STEM is a "boy's club". It's not that there isn't merit to gender issues in STEM. It's that the dialogue is manufactured by people whose goals aren't egalitarian. If you don't educate yourself in the nuances of gender issues and postmodern powerplays you're going to be the sucker blown full of hot air.
- lifeisstillgood 14y ago
  Nice word. Thanks
- king_jester 14y ago
  There is no such thing as institutional misandry, so no, misandry does not permeate our culture. However, the headline is total click bait, but this is the NYT so no surprise there.
bearmf 14y ago
Father's primary impact is in his genetic material. Secondary impact is his parenting impact which starts to matter mostly after child is 2 years old. Before that, from conception to birth to 2 years, mother is much more important.
- JshWright 14y ago
  Care to expand on that? My daughter is two weeks old today. In the past 14 days, my wife has been responsible for providing 100% of what our baby consumes, but at least half the time, I'm the one feeding her (we're about 50/50 breastfed/pumped breastmilk in a bottle). Aside from that, there's effectively no difference in our roles in caring for her. We both change diapers, we both bathe her, we both hold her and comfort her when she's fussy. We don't pay any particular attention to making it a 50/50 split for these activities, but it probably works out to approximately that, for all intents and purposes. Right now her schedule seems fairly nocturnal (she seems most awake from ~2300 to ~0400), and I tend to be the one up with her during that time, since I find I'm pretty productive during those hours anyway (I've gotten pretty good at one-handed typing). On a practical level, there's effectively no difference in the amount of care provided between her mother and I. Your statement that her impact is "much more important" is fairly offensive to me (and while I haven't bothered talking to my wife about a comment on Hacker News... I suspect she would be equally offended).
  - scrumper 14y ago
    Congratulations! My daughter was born almost four weeks ago, though we've only had her home a week (she was premature and spent a while in the NICU.) I'm glad you're getting stuff done at night; I've been stuck on the same moderately complex C++ state machine implementation since she was born. I'm just too tired to load the problem into my head. While my wife is theoretically capable of doing everything on her own we share duties like you do, if only because there's no way I could allow the woman I married to suffer the entire burden of childcare unsupported. I don't know of anyone who does things any differently. > I've gotten pretty good at one-handed typing In another context that would be a source of shame, not pride :) In bearmf's defence, we do matter more to the child after 2 years old. What we're doing now is supporting the mother.
paul9290 14y ago
They matter - just look to inner cities here in the US where many do not have father figures and thus end up on the streets then in jail.
- pavel_lishin 14y ago
  I don't necessarily disagree, but there are a lot of other factors that make those kids' childhood precarious.
brc 14y ago
I clicked the link expecting to find a discussion on the role a father has in the raising of children. What I found was a wandering discussion about epigenetics with zero real-world applicability, given that all Fathers-to-be or existing Fathers cannot rewind the clock. Changes in a childs crucial upbringing years will have orders-of-magniture more effect than this stuff. Besides, it's dangerous to program little ears with 'you can't help being fat, it's because your father ate too much as a teenager'. Personal responsibility is the most important thing for a child to learn. With personal responsibility, even the fattest person can get back to a normal weight range.

philwelch 14y ago

It's part of the casual misandry that permeates our culture.

winter_blue 14y ago
I agree with you to an extent; fathers are often seen as incapable of raising children in American culture. However, do you know if there is any literature or articles/discussion on this? (In particular about how fathers are seen, and more broadly on the misandry.)
- mtrimpe 14y ago
  A little tough to get a hold of and to read, but The Myth of Masculinity by Joseph Pleck [http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Masculinity-Joseph-Pleck/dp/0262660504 http://www.amazon.com/The-Myth-Masculinity-Joseph-Pleck/dp/0...] is by far the most thorough take on male masculinity I've ever read.
- victorhn 14y ago
  Here is an excellent blog post: http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.html http://www.singularity2050.com/2010/01/the-misandry-bubble.h...
- 001sky 14y ago
  Nietzsche: Beyond Good and Evil [1] --Way ahead of its time. _________ [1] "Supposing truth was a woman, what then..." Is the opening line. Not for the faint of heart, though.
s_baby 14y ago
According to Warren Farrell NYTimes is systematic and deliberate in perpetuating misandry. This is coming from a man who was both a founding member in a major feminist organization(N.O.W) and a writer for the NYTimes. http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0610farrell.html http://www.ifeminists.net/introduction/editorials/2003/0610f...
- marvin 14y ago
  The New York Times isn't the only media organization guilty of this. It is systemic in a lot of Western media outlets, small as well as large. Interesting to hear it pointed out by someone who cannot credibly be acused of being ignorant of gender questions, though.
  - s_baby 14y ago
    Something to keep in mind when the blogosphere lights up about how STEM is a "boy's club". It's not that there isn't merit to gender issues in STEM. It's that the dialogue is manufactured by people whose goals aren't egalitarian. If you don't educate yourself in the nuances of gender issues and postmodern powerplays you're going to be the sucker blown full of hot air.
lifeisstillgood 14y ago
Nice word. Thanks
king_jester 14y ago
There is no such thing as institutional misandry, so no, misandry does not permeate our culture. However, the headline is total click bait, but this is the NYT so no surprise there.

bearmf 14y ago

Father's primary impact is in his genetic material. Secondary impact is his parenting impact which starts to matter mostly after child is 2 years old. Before that, from conception to birth to 2 years, mother is much more important.

JshWright 14y ago
Care to expand on that? My daughter is two weeks old today. In the past 14 days, my wife has been responsible for providing 100% of what our baby consumes, but at least half the time, I'm the one feeding her (we're about 50/50 breastfed/pumped breastmilk in a bottle). Aside from that, there's effectively no difference in our roles in caring for her. We both change diapers, we both bathe her, we both hold her and comfort her when she's fussy. We don't pay any particular attention to making it a 50/50 split for these activities, but it probably works out to approximately that, for all intents and purposes. Right now her schedule seems fairly nocturnal (she seems most awake from ~2300 to ~0400), and I tend to be the one up with her during that time, since I find I'm pretty productive during those hours anyway (I've gotten pretty good at one-handed typing). On a practical level, there's effectively no difference in the amount of care provided between her mother and I. Your statement that her impact is "much more important" is fairly offensive to me (and while I haven't bothered talking to my wife about a comment on Hacker News... I suspect she would be equally offended).
- scrumper 14y ago
  Congratulations! My daughter was born almost four weeks ago, though we've only had her home a week (she was premature and spent a while in the NICU.) I'm glad you're getting stuff done at night; I've been stuck on the same moderately complex C++ state machine implementation since she was born. I'm just too tired to load the problem into my head. While my wife is theoretically capable of doing everything on her own we share duties like you do, if only because there's no way I could allow the woman I married to suffer the entire burden of childcare unsupported. I don't know of anyone who does things any differently. > I've gotten pretty good at one-handed typing In another context that would be a source of shame, not pride :) In bearmf's defence, we do matter more to the child after 2 years old. What we're doing now is supporting the mother.

paul9290 14y ago

They matter - just look to inner cities here in the US where many do not have father figures and thus end up on the streets then in jail.

pavel_lishin 14y ago
I don't necessarily disagree, but there are a lot of other factors that make those kids' childhood precarious.

brc 14y ago

I clicked the link expecting to find a discussion on the role a father has in the raising of children. What I found was a wandering discussion about epigenetics with zero real-world applicability, given that all Fathers-to-be or existing Fathers cannot rewind the clock. Changes in a childs crucial upbringing years will have orders-of-magniture more effect than this stuff. Besides, it's dangerous to program little ears with 'you can't help being fat, it's because your father ate too much as a teenager'. Personal responsibility is the most important thing for a child to learn. With personal responsibility, even the fattest person can get back to a normal weight range.