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34.5% of US Internet Population Not using Facebook/Twitter

106 points by hownottowrite 14y ago

shmerl 14y ago
The result looks reassuring, that there are still people who care about their privacy. (I'm not using Facebook and Twitter both). Requiring to sign in with FB or Twitter is disrespectful. If some site offers external authentication, let it use OpenID or BrowserID already.
AndrewDucker 14y ago
I wouldn't sign up for a site using FB/Twitter unless there was a solid technical reason to (i.e. Buffer and Twitter, because it's a Twitter-posting app). And that's because I see no reason to associate my Facebook (family/friend-facing, lots of personal stuff on there) with any company. I like to keep a strict firewall in there.
kzahel 14y ago
Sometimes I let sites sign me in with FB/Twitter, because the alternative is giving them my email address, which seems nearly just as bad. And that way, I don't have to type anything.
- pgeorgi 14y ago
  There's easily an infinite amount of email addresses (eg. spamgourmet). A browser extensions to automate that would be nice, though. FB and twitter both spread enough tracking beacons (those like/share buttons) across the web that any attempt to use >1 accounts to distract FB or twitter are probably futile.
- Gormo 14y ago
  I always use a unique, disposable email address for every account I create, and use KeePass for automated login. This method is just as easy, and allows me to retain full control over my online accounts.
  - RKearney 14y ago
    It's also a fun way to see who sells your email address to third parties.
Ogre 14y ago
There's not an answer on there I could honestly choose if I'd taken that survey. I would have voted No. But I am on both services, I do understand how it works, and I am not scared of scams. I just don't see why I should - creating an account using an email address is also easy and by this point don't most people understand how it works? If they managed to sign up for facebook or twitter, they clearly do!
- bunderbunder 14y ago
  creating an account using an email address is also easy How about companies like Pinterest and Spotify that only let you sign up with a Facebook or Twitter account?
wazoox 14y ago
One of the most interesting part of this article is that it made me discover this google survey tool. For the rest, I'm quite sure there's a skew here, because people without internet access or not using it for browsing (mostly older people) should be under-represented. I don't want to believe that 65% of everybody in the US is using FB.
- tesseractive 14y ago
  It said pretty clearly in a couple of places that it was a survey of internet users.
- pgeorgi 14y ago
  It's somewhat pointless to ask people without internet access if they're interested in logging into websites using another website account. So yes, that's the web using subset of total population, totally fine for this question. That aspect is more of an issue if you want to use Google Surveys to determine whether to start a new supermarket on Main Street. I hope the Google Survey people propose some other service for such inquiries.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
nhebb 14y ago
Interesting results, but I'm skeptical as to whether the sample results can be extrapolated to the U.S. internet population as a whole.
overgard 14y ago
Perhaps I missed it, but that was missing the answer I would have given, which is "No - Because I don't trust any company to give them that much access to me, even if I do like their service". The closest thing was "No - I'm afraid of scams"; but I'm not really afraid of scams as much as lost/misplaced data, company policies changing with respect to my privacy, etc.
- antidoh 14y ago
  So the scam you'd be afraid of is Facebook or Twitter.
- mojuba 14y ago
  Agreed; but I'd put that (missing) option as: No - due to privacy concerns
  - reinhardt 14y ago
    This. It's not (necessarily) a matter of scam, I just want to keep my activity in different parts of the internet segregated.
  - overgard 14y ago
    Yeah, that's a lot more concise.
veyron 14y ago
That also means 65.5% of US Internet population is using Facebook or Twitter, a mind boggling statistic
- SoftwareMaven 14y ago
  65.5% of the web browsing, any-other-demographic-and-psychographic-modifying-aspect-of-Google-Survey population. That makes it harder to say how boggling of a statistic it is. Far greater than 65.5% of my household accesses Facebook and/or Twitter.
  - veyron 14y ago
    "Far greater than 65.5% of my household accesses Facebook and/or Twitter." In my social circles, Facebook/Twitter usage clocks in at about 15%, so the numbers of the survey were at least minimally surprising ...
- 16s 14y ago
  I would wager that a certain percentage of people in the US have no Internet service at all. Your guess on that percentage is as good as mine. I can think of several older people I know that do not have Internet service or cell phones. Nor do they care to.
  - veyron 14y ago
    I wrote "65.5% of US Internet population", not "65.5% of US Residents".
diego 14y ago
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." And then the OP runs a questionable survey that doesn't warrant the conclusion (which by the way, is not earth-shattering). - You could not be on Facebook / Twitter and still pick one of the other answers. - You could be one of the services but not the other, and pick the first answer. What does Facebook "/" Twitter mean? AND or OR? Completely unclear. - If the order of the options wasn't randomized, you would likely get a bias towards the first option. Don't know if this was the case.
- azakai 14y ago
  The article does say the order was randomized. But there is a bigger problem: one of the options is "I’m scared of scams." Regardless of reading order, if you read all the options before answering - and presumably most people do - then this causes what psychologists call a "priming" effect. You start to think about scams, and you can then behave very differently than if that option were not in the survey.
  - diego 14y ago
    I agree. There's a great "Yes Prime Minister" video about this. I just wrote a blog post about how it relates to this poll. http://diegobasch.com/google-surveys-know-what-you-are-asking http://diegobasch.com/google-surveys-know-what-you-are-askin...
mistercow 14y ago
>Google has a whitepaper explaining how this tool works and why it’s as good if not better than doing telephone surveys. I’m going to trust that Google’s stats wizards know their stuff But... they have a clear bias in favor of telling you that it's better than telephone surveys. Clearly you should not trust a claim like that without looking at an independent analysis.
- tubbo 14y ago
  That may be why they were also inclined to help him "tweak" the survey questions for better results. I noticed that "Sign in with Google" wasn't included on this list.
antidoh 14y ago
Interesting that the percentage of a group that claims not to be on FB/TW goes from * a high of 41.7% for the 65+ group. and moves steadily down through the groups to * 27.4% for the 25-34 group. but then jumps back up to * 34.7% for 18-24 year olds.
- jorgem 14y ago
  My theory: Twitter with a pay-as-you-text phone plan is not wise (if you like to get tweets as texts). Hence the kids can't afford it.
  - antidoh 14y ago
    Do most kids and people in general have all you can eat text or pay as you text? I've been pay as you text, but now that my teenage son has his own phone (and all you can eat text, because he's gonna text ...) I will have to move my plan to all you can eat just to survive his comms.
mariuolo 14y ago
There's hope for humanity.
Kilimanjaro 14y ago
Average IQ has gone 34.5% up too. What a coincidence.
- mike-cardwell 14y ago
  The average IQ is, and always will be, 100. By it's very definition.
sadow 14y ago
(disclaimer: I work for Google Consumer Surveys) Here is a February 2012 study from Pew Internet, citing that 66% of the American internet population uses social media. http://pewinternet.org/Commentary/2012/March/Pew-Internet-Social-Networking-full-detail.aspx http://pewinternet.org/Commentary/2012/March/Pew-Internet-So... Our data, in addition to the survey shared on HN earlier, shows very similar statistics.
mergesort 14y ago
1,817 random samples is not a good way to represent a population of 300,000,000+. What kind of audience is represented by someone who would take a random poll on the internet? Probably someone who is not that tech savvy, skewing the already small sample size.
- arrrg 14y ago
  1,817 truly randomly sampled people would be pretty great and plenty for good data. The problem here is that the sample is not random.
endeavor 14y ago
Interesting survey but I think an A/B test is really what we need here. A = traditional authentication / B = FB, Twitter, Google OAuth. The people without FB and Twitter are late adopters and won't try your service no matter what kind of auth you use. For the people that are concerned about privacy, I'm not sure how big their impact will be.
- Zak 14y ago
  I am not a late adopter. I do have accounts on Facebook and Twitter. I will not sign up for your service if I have to use one of those accounts to do it because I don't want either one of them becoming my identity online.
chemmail 14y ago
This should read like all other surveys: 34.5% of the people who took this survey claim they are not using Facebook/Twitter.
- short_circut 14y ago
  I agree. The amount of response bias in this survey will tend to be absurd. I suspect most people who use facebook and/or twitter won't bother with answering this. There is no good reason to. I also suspect that people who don't use facebook or twitter will also be indignant about the fact that they don't use it and will make a point to vote against them. Heck even I have done similar stuff before. From the outset this survey isn't going to work if the methodology is not correct
31reasons 14y ago
Thank God.
andrewparker 14y ago
Yes, this survey design is questionable by most standards. But, it's not a survey design disaster and is likely a "directionally correct" reflection of internet users' actual behavior. Are exactly 34.5% of the US Internet Population not using fb/twitter? Of course not, but I suspect that number is pretty close. If you're building a social networking app, this is an opportunity.
jfmercer 14y ago
Wouldn't a better title be "65.5% of US Internet Population using Facebook/Twitter"?
Zak 14y ago
Missing option: no, because I hate it. That's essentially my answer. I have accounts with both Facebook and Twitter. I understand how the authentication works, and I'm not afraid such requests are scams (note: that's mostly a subset of not understanding how it works). I don't want my online identity tied to a third party account whose operator has few obligations to me.
bugmenot 14y ago
FB has no redeeming value. Twitter has little.

106 points by hownottowrite 14y ago

The result looks reassuring, that there are still people who care about their privacy. (I'm not using Facebook and Twitter both). Requiring to sign in with FB or Twitter is disrespectful. If some site offers external authentication, let it use OpenID or BrowserID already.

AndrewDucker 14y ago

I wouldn't sign up for a site using FB/Twitter unless there was a solid technical reason to (i.e. Buffer and Twitter, because it's a Twitter-posting app). And that's because I see no reason to associate my Facebook (family/friend-facing, lots of personal stuff on there) with any company. I like to keep a strict firewall in there.

kzahel 14y ago

Sometimes I let sites sign me in with FB/Twitter, because the alternative is giving them my email address, which seems nearly just as bad. And that way, I don't have to type anything.

pgeorgi 14y ago
There's easily an infinite amount of email addresses (eg. spamgourmet). A browser extensions to automate that would be nice, though. FB and twitter both spread enough tracking beacons (those like/share buttons) across the web that any attempt to use >1 accounts to distract FB or twitter are probably futile.
Gormo 14y ago
I always use a unique, disposable email address for every account I create, and use KeePass for automated login. This method is just as easy, and allows me to retain full control over my online accounts.
- RKearney 14y ago
  It's also a fun way to see who sells your email address to third parties.

Ogre 14y ago

There's not an answer on there I could honestly choose if I'd taken that survey. I would have voted No. But I am on both services, I do understand how it works, and I am not scared of scams. I just don't see why I should - creating an account using an email address is also easy and by this point don't most people understand how it works? If they managed to sign up for facebook or twitter, they clearly do!

bunderbunder 14y ago
creating an account using an email address is also easy How about companies like Pinterest and Spotify that only let you sign up with a Facebook or Twitter account?

wazoox 14y ago

One of the most interesting part of this article is that it made me discover this google survey tool. For the rest, I'm quite sure there's a skew here, because people without internet access or not using it for browsing (mostly older people) should be under-represented. I don't want to believe that 65% of everybody in the US is using FB.

tesseractive 14y ago
It said pretty clearly in a couple of places that it was a survey of internet users.
pgeorgi 14y ago
It's somewhat pointless to ask people without internet access if they're interested in logging into websites using another website account. So yes, that's the web using subset of total population, totally fine for this question. That aspect is more of an issue if you want to use Google Surveys to determine whether to start a new supermarket on Main Street. I hope the Google Survey people propose some other service for such inquiries.
- deleted 14y ago
  [deleted]

nhebb 14y ago

Interesting results, but I'm skeptical as to whether the sample results can be extrapolated to the U.S. internet population as a whole.

overgard 14y ago

Perhaps I missed it, but that was missing the answer I would have given, which is "No - Because I don't trust any company to give them that much access to me, even if I do like their service". The closest thing was "No - I'm afraid of scams"; but I'm not really afraid of scams as much as lost/misplaced data, company policies changing with respect to my privacy, etc.

antidoh 14y ago
So the scam you'd be afraid of is Facebook or Twitter.
mojuba 14y ago
Agreed; but I'd put that (missing) option as: No - due to privacy concerns
- reinhardt 14y ago
  This. It's not (necessarily) a matter of scam, I just want to keep my activity in different parts of the internet segregated.
- overgard 14y ago
  Yeah, that's a lot more concise.

veyron 14y ago

That also means 65.5% of US Internet population is using Facebook or Twitter, a mind boggling statistic

SoftwareMaven 14y ago
65.5% of the web browsing, any-other-demographic-and-psychographic-modifying-aspect-of-Google-Survey population. That makes it harder to say how boggling of a statistic it is. Far greater than 65.5% of my household accesses Facebook and/or Twitter.
- veyron 14y ago
  "Far greater than 65.5% of my household accesses Facebook and/or Twitter." In my social circles, Facebook/Twitter usage clocks in at about 15%, so the numbers of the survey were at least minimally surprising ...
16s 14y ago
I would wager that a certain percentage of people in the US have no Internet service at all. Your guess on that percentage is as good as mine. I can think of several older people I know that do not have Internet service or cell phones. Nor do they care to.
- veyron 14y ago
  I wrote "65.5% of US Internet population", not "65.5% of US Residents".

diego 14y ago

"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." And then the OP runs a questionable survey that doesn't warrant the conclusion (which by the way, is not earth-shattering). - You could not be on Facebook / Twitter and still pick one of the other answers. - You could be one of the services but not the other, and pick the first answer. What does Facebook "/" Twitter mean? AND or OR? Completely unclear. - If the order of the options wasn't randomized, you would likely get a bias towards the first option. Don't know if this was the case.

azakai 14y ago
The article does say the order was randomized. But there is a bigger problem: one of the options is "I’m scared of scams." Regardless of reading order, if you read all the options before answering - and presumably most people do - then this causes what psychologists call a "priming" effect. You start to think about scams, and you can then behave very differently than if that option were not in the survey.
- diego 14y ago
  I agree. There's a great "Yes Prime Minister" video about this. I just wrote a blog post about how it relates to this poll. http://diegobasch.com/google-surveys-know-what-you-are-asking http://diegobasch.com/google-surveys-know-what-you-are-askin...

mistercow 14y ago

>Google has a whitepaper explaining how this tool works and why it’s as good if not better than doing telephone surveys. I’m going to trust that Google’s stats wizards know their stuff But... they have a clear bias in favor of telling you that it's better than telephone surveys. Clearly you should not trust a claim like that without looking at an independent analysis.

tubbo 14y ago
That may be why they were also inclined to help him "tweak" the survey questions for better results. I noticed that "Sign in with Google" wasn't included on this list.

antidoh 14y ago

Interesting that the percentage of a group that claims not to be on FB/TW goes from * a high of 41.7% for the 65+ group. and moves steadily down through the groups to * 27.4% for the 25-34 group. but then jumps back up to * 34.7% for 18-24 year olds.

jorgem 14y ago
My theory: Twitter with a pay-as-you-text phone plan is not wise (if you like to get tweets as texts). Hence the kids can't afford it.
- antidoh 14y ago
  Do most kids and people in general have all you can eat text or pay as you text? I've been pay as you text, but now that my teenage son has his own phone (and all you can eat text, because he's gonna text ...) I will have to move my plan to all you can eat just to survive his comms.

mariuolo 14y ago

There's hope for humanity.

Kilimanjaro 14y ago

Average IQ has gone 34.5% up too. What a coincidence.

mike-cardwell 14y ago
The average IQ is, and always will be, 100. By it's very definition.

sadow 14y ago

(disclaimer: I work for Google Consumer Surveys) Here is a February 2012 study from Pew Internet, citing that 66% of the American internet population uses social media. http://pewinternet.org/Commentary/2012/March/Pew-Internet-Social-Networking-full-detail.aspx http://pewinternet.org/Commentary/2012/March/Pew-Internet-So... Our data, in addition to the survey shared on HN earlier, shows very similar statistics.

mergesort 14y ago

1,817 random samples is not a good way to represent a population of 300,000,000+. What kind of audience is represented by someone who would take a random poll on the internet? Probably someone who is not that tech savvy, skewing the already small sample size.

arrrg 14y ago
1,817 truly randomly sampled people would be pretty great and plenty for good data. The problem here is that the sample is not random.

endeavor 14y ago

Interesting survey but I think an A/B test is really what we need here. A = traditional authentication / B = FB, Twitter, Google OAuth. The people without FB and Twitter are late adopters and won't try your service no matter what kind of auth you use. For the people that are concerned about privacy, I'm not sure how big their impact will be.

Zak 14y ago
I am not a late adopter. I do have accounts on Facebook and Twitter. I will not sign up for your service if I have to use one of those accounts to do it because I don't want either one of them becoming my identity online.

chemmail 14y ago

This should read like all other surveys: 34.5% of the people who took this survey claim they are not using Facebook/Twitter.

short_circut 14y ago
I agree. The amount of response bias in this survey will tend to be absurd. I suspect most people who use facebook and/or twitter won't bother with answering this. There is no good reason to. I also suspect that people who don't use facebook or twitter will also be indignant about the fact that they don't use it and will make a point to vote against them. Heck even I have done similar stuff before. From the outset this survey isn't going to work if the methodology is not correct

31reasons 14y ago

Thank God.

andrewparker 14y ago

Yes, this survey design is questionable by most standards. But, it's not a survey design disaster and is likely a "directionally correct" reflection of internet users' actual behavior. Are exactly 34.5% of the US Internet Population not using fb/twitter? Of course not, but I suspect that number is pretty close. If you're building a social networking app, this is an opportunity.

jfmercer 14y ago

Wouldn't a better title be "65.5% of US Internet Population using Facebook/Twitter"?

Zak 14y ago

Missing option: no, because I hate it. That's essentially my answer. I have accounts with both Facebook and Twitter. I understand how the authentication works, and I'm not afraid such requests are scams (note: that's mostly a subset of not understanding how it works). I don't want my online identity tied to a third party account whose operator has few obligations to me.

bugmenot 14y ago

FB has no redeeming value. Twitter has little.