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> Marx's Capital is actually a very well written piece of research Marx's Capital is actually a very well written piece of bad research. He cherry-picked the

> Marx's Capital is actually a very well written piece of research Marx's Capital is actually a very well written piece of bad research. He cherry-picked the data, ignoring evidence that was available to him that disagreed with the conclusions he was reaching. Let me say that again: There was evidence against his theories present in the data he was perusing. > Nah. The central point of Socialism/Communism is the DEMOCRATIZATION of production. How does that work out? You can call what happened "democratization", but it sure looks like central control to me - central control by an authoritarian. That's what has happened every time. You know how they say "the purpose of a system is what it does"? Well, at least by that standard, no, the purpose of communism is not the democratization of production, because that's not what it does.

Atlas667 1y ago
Can you point me to the critique you mention? Also I mean "what it looks like" to you is kind of irrelevant because we really do not live in a democracy but it probably looks like one to you. Are you OK that your country aids in the literal enslavement and exploitation of people abroad for cheap goods? Are you OK that capitalist countries perpetrate more war and caused more death than any other before it? You must be if you believe in democracy. Wake up, there is no democracy. ALL poverty is fabricated and sustained for profits. So in the same sense: How does capitalism work? Is it democratic or is it a profit extraction system that knows no bounds? I know communist states commited some mistakes in the 20th century, most are inflated for capitalist propaganda but there are legit ones. But Im not here for apologia. I do what makes sense. And it makes sense to me that profit creates authoritarianism. And that to create true democracy we must democratize production. That shit makes more sense to me than "getting rich makes everyone better through competition". Read communist literature and decide for yourself, be intellectually honest, and move on if its not right. I dont care. I dont want someone to rule over me. And I'll never EVER vote for someone who isnt enacting mass democracy. Which is why I havent voted. I'm a real person with real aspirations and I wont be taken advantage by the rich who provably run this shit.
- lazide 1y ago
  This shit is hilarious. Like literally can’t make this up. There are many problems with the current system, but it’s hard to think of a better indictment of everything you’re saying than “Which is why I havent voted. I'm a real person with real aspirations and I wont be taken advantage by the rich who provably run this shit.” Huh?
  - Atlas667 1y ago
    lol, you've made no argument yet you act like you have presented something here. Corporations already fund some politicians and judges whole careers. Corporations fund the policy groups within popular political parties. They fund the policy groups/think tanks that influence popular political parties as well. Did you think this was just the will of the people? Ever heard of Citizens United? What is Lobbying? Do you think these people are just gonna come out and say: "Hey, influencing politics is a whole industry worth billions."? and "We make sure your political options are aligned with our interests before they even reach your perception"? None of them propose mass democracy because they know its not in their interest, but it is in ours. Don't vote for images. Democracy is not trust, Democracy is control.
    - lazide 1y ago
      Dude, the original question was ‘and do you have any concrete proposals for making it better that trying to implement won’t definitely (and historically provably!) end up even worse’ And you keep not answering the question while spewing a whole bunch of random other BS. It reads like your only exposure to real life is Political Science 101. And the stuff you’re complaining about isn’t even specific to capitalism! Do you think judges in other countries (especially communist and social countries!) are somehow totally independent? Do you think massive abuses of workers and the population didn’t (and don’t) happen in the USSR or under the CCP in its various iterations? Even ‘return production to the people’ is ludicrous without even specifying how. Because 1) why should the current owners be okay with it, and what are you going to do to them if they aren’t. (Historically, this is often ‘murder them’) 2) how would ‘the people’ even operate it ‘individually’ without destroying it or having the same hierarchical (or worse) power structure (historically this is ‘don’t worry, our political appartchik/crony will run it’) and 3) how do you stop abusive pieces of shit from abusing the structure? (Historically, this is murdering anyone who complains that we’re being abusive). People like Stalin and Mao did untold damage under the banners of communism and socialism, because people kept just spouting the same bullshit you are and never asking these actual questions.

Atlas667 1y ago

Can you point me to the critique you mention? Also I mean "what it looks like" to you is kind of irrelevant because we really do not live in a democracy but it probably looks like one to you. Are you OK that your country aids in the literal enslavement and exploitation of people abroad for cheap goods? Are you OK that capitalist countries perpetrate more war and caused more death than any other before it? You must be if you believe in democracy. Wake up, there is no democracy. ALL poverty is fabricated and sustained for profits. So in the same sense: How does capitalism work? Is it democratic or is it a profit extraction system that knows no bounds? I know communist states commited some mistakes in the 20th century, most are inflated for capitalist propaganda but there are legit ones. But Im not here for apologia. I do what makes sense. And it makes sense to me that profit creates authoritarianism. And that to create true democracy we must democratize production. That shit makes more sense to me than "getting rich makes everyone better through competition". Read communist literature and decide for yourself, be intellectually honest, and move on if its not right. I dont care. I dont want someone to rule over me. And I'll never EVER vote for someone who isnt enacting mass democracy. Which is why I havent voted. I'm a real person with real aspirations and I wont be taken advantage by the rich who provably run this shit.

lazide 1y ago
This shit is hilarious. Like literally can’t make this up. There are many problems with the current system, but it’s hard to think of a better indictment of everything you’re saying than “Which is why I havent voted. I'm a real person with real aspirations and I wont be taken advantage by the rich who provably run this shit.” Huh?
- Atlas667 1y ago
  lol, you've made no argument yet you act like you have presented something here. Corporations already fund some politicians and judges whole careers. Corporations fund the policy groups within popular political parties. They fund the policy groups/think tanks that influence popular political parties as well. Did you think this was just the will of the people? Ever heard of Citizens United? What is Lobbying? Do you think these people are just gonna come out and say: "Hey, influencing politics is a whole industry worth billions."? and "We make sure your political options are aligned with our interests before they even reach your perception"? None of them propose mass democracy because they know its not in their interest, but it is in ours. Don't vote for images. Democracy is not trust, Democracy is control.
  - lazide 1y ago
    Dude, the original question was ‘and do you have any concrete proposals for making it better that trying to implement won’t definitely (and historically provably!) end up even worse’ And you keep not answering the question while spewing a whole bunch of random other BS. It reads like your only exposure to real life is Political Science 101. And the stuff you’re complaining about isn’t even specific to capitalism! Do you think judges in other countries (especially communist and social countries!) are somehow totally independent? Do you think massive abuses of workers and the population didn’t (and don’t) happen in the USSR or under the CCP in its various iterations? Even ‘return production to the people’ is ludicrous without even specifying how. Because 1) why should the current owners be okay with it, and what are you going to do to them if they aren’t. (Historically, this is often ‘murder them’) 2) how would ‘the people’ even operate it ‘individually’ without destroying it or having the same hierarchical (or worse) power structure (historically this is ‘don’t worry, our political appartchik/crony will run it’) and 3) how do you stop abusive pieces of shit from abusing the structure? (Historically, this is murdering anyone who complains that we’re being abusive). People like Stalin and Mao did untold damage under the banners of communism and socialism, because people kept just spouting the same bullshit you are and never asking these actual questions.