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I'll be honest. Many of us in the US are tired of fighting with people that vote against their own interests time and again. It's like having a family member th

I'll be honest. Many of us in the US are tired of fighting with people that vote against their own interests time and again. It's like having a family member that keeps letting a burglar in the back door, over and over again. At some point you start thinking it might be easier to just find somewhere else to live...

Henchman21 1y ago
[flagged]
- JohnFen 1y ago
  Giving up just guarantees all this stuff gets locked in. Never give up. Particularly when it seems like continuing to fight is pointless.
  - Henchman21 1y ago
    Put a weapon in my hand and show me where I can start fighting the good fight and I’m in. I can’t do it alone and I wouldn’t try alone. We need to stand the fuck up and start fighting for our lives, our futures, out world. But until that day comes? There’s literally nothing for me to do. And to be clear: I’d happily die for a cause to give my life some meaning. Because as it stands working the rat race is meaningless.
    - JohnFen 1y ago
      > There’s literally nothing for me to do. This isn't actually true. What is true is that there's nothing we can do that is effective, spectacular, and will yield rapid change. But history shows that there's a lot we can do. Even recent history. The people in power now are a specific and stark example of that. Nothing about their rise to power was sudden or accidental, it's the fruit of decades of determined, hard work. And it worked. So look long term. You build the future one brick at a time. There are lots of ways to fight. Certainly many ways that I suspect you would consider pointless or misguided, such as joining up with like-minded people and agitating, lobbying, etc., or getting involved with the local government, joining the school board, whatever. Also many ways that just aren't your thing. All of that is normal and good. You don't have to be an activist of any variety in order to stand up. Just living your life as best and honestly as you can, becoming a part of your community in whatever facet you can, and avoiding supporting (financially and otherwise) companies and other organizations that use their wealth and power in ways you disagree with is, honestly, also standing up and fighting. Maybe even the most important way, on the whole. "Whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it is very important that you do it because you can't know [its real meaning]."
    - amy_petrik 1y ago
      >And to be clear: I’d happily die for a cause to give my life some meaning. It's not a bad cause, allowing children to watch pronographie's, but may I suggest some causes one might find more satisfying? 1) cancer 2) cheap and pollutionless energy 3) reliable food supply
      - lucyjojo 1y ago
        all of that will be captured by the oligarchs and the people will still suffer. we already throw away massive amounts of food to artificially raise profit. basic medicine have their formula frivolously modified to renew patents and keep profits high. considering energy look at america regressing on the daily.
    - giardini 1y ago
      [flagged]
- giardini 1y ago
  [flagged]
naniwaduni 1y ago
In the US? Where else have you even been looking?
Izkata 1y ago
> Many of us in the US are tired of fighting with people that vote against their own interests time and again. Most people aren't voting against their interests, they're voting for the least-bad option based on whichever issues are most important to them. Often that means they have to vote against what they want on one issue, to vote for something they want on a different issue they care more about. There is no way to vote for every issue someone might want, so there will always be to make this complaint no matter what the outcome is.
- PorterBHall 1y ago
  Wedge issues, deployed by both political parties, do exactly this. Wealthy donors express their political desires by funding politicians who become dependent on their continued financial support. The voter gets just enough small wins on these wedge issues to keep them somewhat happy. The wealthy preserves the status quo since that’s how they became wealthy in the first place. Our democracy ossifies in the face of new challenges. If voters across the spectrum viewed campaign finance reform as a key issue, we might have some hope in changing things.
- Tadpole9181 1y ago
  No, I'm not going to be nearly as generous on this anymore. All my life I've been surrounded by conservatives. Most of my family is conservative to this day. And from extensive discussion and observation, they vote for two reasons: 1. To hurt "others". In particular, LGBT (focus on the T) and minorities. When there are minorities in our family! 2. As an extension of (1) - To cut all forms of social nets and gut education. Social nets they actively rely on! And the education systems their own family participate in! It's not about a better America tomorrow, it's not about taking care of their children's future (who, I should add, are now unemployed because of government layoffs). The "identity" of their "identity politics" is an utter contempt for other human beings being allowed to exist. There's no discussion of economics. There's no discussion of history. There's never numbers brought out or thoughts on short-term vs long-term policy. It's never how we can improve the lives of Americans or tackle the debt or recover foreign relations or police effectively. Politics is exclusively about hate. Border "invasion", trans "pedos", Haitian "dog eaters", middle eastern "terrorists", Chinese "communists", gay "weirdos", union "thieves", "emotional" women, "socialist" educators. Actual policy discussion is so far from the norm and stays in places like HN, but the boots-on-the-ground reality is so far from what we pretend it is in forums like this, it's like a different planet.

Henchman21 1y ago

[flagged]

JohnFen 1y ago
Giving up just guarantees all this stuff gets locked in. Never give up. Particularly when it seems like continuing to fight is pointless.
- Henchman21 1y ago
  Put a weapon in my hand and show me where I can start fighting the good fight and I’m in. I can’t do it alone and I wouldn’t try alone. We need to stand the fuck up and start fighting for our lives, our futures, out world. But until that day comes? There’s literally nothing for me to do. And to be clear: I’d happily die for a cause to give my life some meaning. Because as it stands working the rat race is meaningless.
  - JohnFen 1y ago
    > There’s literally nothing for me to do. This isn't actually true. What is true is that there's nothing we can do that is effective, spectacular, and will yield rapid change. But history shows that there's a lot we can do. Even recent history. The people in power now are a specific and stark example of that. Nothing about their rise to power was sudden or accidental, it's the fruit of decades of determined, hard work. And it worked. So look long term. You build the future one brick at a time. There are lots of ways to fight. Certainly many ways that I suspect you would consider pointless or misguided, such as joining up with like-minded people and agitating, lobbying, etc., or getting involved with the local government, joining the school board, whatever. Also many ways that just aren't your thing. All of that is normal and good. You don't have to be an activist of any variety in order to stand up. Just living your life as best and honestly as you can, becoming a part of your community in whatever facet you can, and avoiding supporting (financially and otherwise) companies and other organizations that use their wealth and power in ways you disagree with is, honestly, also standing up and fighting. Maybe even the most important way, on the whole. "Whatever you do in life will be insignificant but it is very important that you do it because you can't know [its real meaning]."
  - amy_petrik 1y ago
    >And to be clear: I’d happily die for a cause to give my life some meaning. It's not a bad cause, allowing children to watch pronographie's, but may I suggest some causes one might find more satisfying? 1) cancer 2) cheap and pollutionless energy 3) reliable food supply
    - lucyjojo 1y ago
      all of that will be captured by the oligarchs and the people will still suffer. we already throw away massive amounts of food to artificially raise profit. basic medicine have their formula frivolously modified to renew patents and keep profits high. considering energy look at america regressing on the daily.
  - giardini 1y ago
    [flagged]
giardini 1y ago
[flagged]

naniwaduni 1y ago

In the US? Where else have you even been looking?

Izkata 1y ago

> Many of us in the US are tired of fighting with people that vote against their own interests time and again. Most people aren't voting against their interests, they're voting for the least-bad option based on whichever issues are most important to them. Often that means they have to vote against what they want on one issue, to vote for something they want on a different issue they care more about. There is no way to vote for every issue someone might want, so there will always be to make this complaint no matter what the outcome is.

PorterBHall 1y ago
Wedge issues, deployed by both political parties, do exactly this. Wealthy donors express their political desires by funding politicians who become dependent on their continued financial support. The voter gets just enough small wins on these wedge issues to keep them somewhat happy. The wealthy preserves the status quo since that’s how they became wealthy in the first place. Our democracy ossifies in the face of new challenges. If voters across the spectrum viewed campaign finance reform as a key issue, we might have some hope in changing things.
Tadpole9181 1y ago
No, I'm not going to be nearly as generous on this anymore. All my life I've been surrounded by conservatives. Most of my family is conservative to this day. And from extensive discussion and observation, they vote for two reasons: 1. To hurt "others". In particular, LGBT (focus on the T) and minorities. When there are minorities in our family! 2. As an extension of (1) - To cut all forms of social nets and gut education. Social nets they actively rely on! And the education systems their own family participate in! It's not about a better America tomorrow, it's not about taking care of their children's future (who, I should add, are now unemployed because of government layoffs). The "identity" of their "identity politics" is an utter contempt for other human beings being allowed to exist. There's no discussion of economics. There's no discussion of history. There's never numbers brought out or thoughts on short-term vs long-term policy. It's never how we can improve the lives of Americans or tackle the debt or recover foreign relations or police effectively. Politics is exclusively about hate. Border "invasion", trans "pedos", Haitian "dog eaters", middle eastern "terrorists", Chinese "communists", gay "weirdos", union "thieves", "emotional" women, "socialist" educators. Actual policy discussion is so far from the norm and stays in places like HN, but the boots-on-the-ground reality is so far from what we pretend it is in forums like this, it's like a different planet.