4 ms·

a lot of the researchers are still in london

by eab- 1y ago

logifail 1y ago
I understand that iPhones are assembled in China, India and Vietnam. Would those countries issue press releases on "their leadership in iPhones"?
- vouwfietsman 1y ago
  China, India and Vietnam absolutely lead in manufacturing iphones, yes.
  - logifail 1y ago
    in manufacturing <-- did you notice this bit? :) I was responding to the quote from Dame Wendy Hall claiming that that UK [has] "international leadership in AI"
- cma 1y ago
  But in this case Deepmind's assembly (plugging in datacenter cables, etc.) is largely done in the US.
- LeifCarrotson 1y ago
  I'm sure representatives of those countries love to say so, especially when talking to third parties about their expertise in manufacturing: "Yes, here in Zhengzhou, CN we're leaders in electronics manufacturing - the iPhone is assembled here at Foxconn!" However, Apple (headquartered in the US) loves to issue press releases describing how their products are "Designed by Apple in California[, USA]" even though a lot of work in the manufacturing, the software, and the design of subcomponents (or major components, I don't know how Apple is organized internally) are done in China, India and Vietnam as you listed. I'd argue that in the same way that Shenzen and Zhengzhou are leaders in electronics assembly because the bulk of the iPhone and other products are built there, regardless of the location of the headquarters of Apple, so to can London claim to be a leader in AI because the researchers for DeepMind are located in London, regardless of who owns the DeepMind brand. Buying a thing from another country doesn't make your location a leader in that thing.
  - logifail 1y ago
    > "we're leaders in electronics manufacturing" The UK wasn't claiming to be "leaders _in manufacturing_", they were claiming "international leadership in AI". As I said elsewhere in the thread, citation needed...
    - atq2119 1y ago
      What you're replying to is an analogy, that you seem to completely fail to understand.
  - astrange 1y ago
    Apple's manufacturers don't do any of the work on the software or design. They don't even manufacture the highest value-add components; those are mostly done in Taiwan and Korea.
firefax 1y ago
Also in general Google satellite offices often house the engineers of acquired startups who don't want to move to the mothership. It's not their primary purpose but it's one of the things they use them for.
- logifail 1y ago
  > in general Google satellite offices often house the engineers of acquired startups who don't want to move to the mothership Would it be unfair to ask if (in this instance the UK's) satellite country taxpayers are subsidising corporate offices when the overall structures are arranged such that any overall corporation tax payable will be paid in the lowest-possible jurisdiction? See - for instance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republi...

a lot of the researchers are still in london

by eab- 1y ago

a lot of the researchers are still in london

I understand that iPhones are assembled in China, India and Vietnam. Would those countries issue press releases on "their leadership in iPhones"?

vouwfietsman 1y ago
China, India and Vietnam absolutely lead in manufacturing iphones, yes.
- logifail 1y ago
  in manufacturing <-- did you notice this bit? :) I was responding to the quote from Dame Wendy Hall claiming that that UK [has] "international leadership in AI"
cma 1y ago
But in this case Deepmind's assembly (plugging in datacenter cables, etc.) is largely done in the US.
LeifCarrotson 1y ago
I'm sure representatives of those countries love to say so, especially when talking to third parties about their expertise in manufacturing: "Yes, here in Zhengzhou, CN we're leaders in electronics manufacturing - the iPhone is assembled here at Foxconn!" However, Apple (headquartered in the US) loves to issue press releases describing how their products are "Designed by Apple in California[, USA]" even though a lot of work in the manufacturing, the software, and the design of subcomponents (or major components, I don't know how Apple is organized internally) are done in China, India and Vietnam as you listed. I'd argue that in the same way that Shenzen and Zhengzhou are leaders in electronics assembly because the bulk of the iPhone and other products are built there, regardless of the location of the headquarters of Apple, so to can London claim to be a leader in AI because the researchers for DeepMind are located in London, regardless of who owns the DeepMind brand. Buying a thing from another country doesn't make your location a leader in that thing.
- logifail 1y ago
  > "we're leaders in electronics manufacturing" The UK wasn't claiming to be "leaders _in manufacturing_", they were claiming "international leadership in AI". As I said elsewhere in the thread, citation needed...
  - atq2119 1y ago
    What you're replying to is an analogy, that you seem to completely fail to understand.
- astrange 1y ago
  Apple's manufacturers don't do any of the work on the software or design. They don't even manufacture the highest value-add components; those are mostly done in Taiwan and Korea.

firefax 1y ago

Also in general Google satellite offices often house the engineers of acquired startups who don't want to move to the mothership. It's not their primary purpose but it's one of the things they use them for.

logifail 1y ago
> in general Google satellite offices often house the engineers of acquired startups who don't want to move to the mothership Would it be unfair to ask if (in this instance the UK's) satellite country taxpayers are subsidising corporate offices when the overall structures are arranged such that any overall corporation tax payable will be paid in the lowest-possible jurisdiction? See - for instance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republic_of_Ireland https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corporation_tax_in_the_Republi...