3 ms·

Information I define as “the removal of uncertainty.” If it does not “remove uncertainty” it is not information (it may be something else, like data or noise.)

Information I define as “the removal of uncertainty.” If it does not “remove uncertainty” it is not information (it may be something else, like data or noise.) therefore yes you are right information is dependent upon the beholder. To solve this, I declare information as a vector. A vector is meaningless without context. A vector is its own dimensionality (size,speed,density,etc.) and value (magnitude). This clears up some of your insightful wanderings. Other parts may be outside of information‘s responsibility. Let us return to your apparently lesser footnote diety who is secretly supreme instigator all along. Decay! Even your smartest reading shall some day be the incomprehensible dust (or rust) or otherwise long since faded. In a world governed by uncertainty, ignorance and confusion is the natural state of minds. It is the illuminant mind which wonders, restlessly tugging at loose stitch until the whole fabric unravels (for better or worse.) All existential change comes by decay or interference (constructive or destructive.) that’s what this whole entropy thing is, and vectors transform potential into meaningful states (which themselves secretly decay when not being watched.)

j_chance 1y ago
Ok this took some time to think about. I've always conflated entropy and randomness/data, but this is wrong. Say that i sample 512 bytes of data from an entropy source. That data is no longer entropic, because it's no longer uncertain. It's now information (assuming it can be used to inform about the entropy source). It may be random looking, but not entropic. I think I see what you mean. Information and entropy are fundamental opposites, information cannot be entropy and entropy cannot be information. Information is certainty, entropy is uncertainty. So with information theory, we measure entropy sources to get information, but it's disconnected from the reality of entropy in physical processes. Which is maybe fine? It seems like an abstraction that is 0 cost. Like if i roll a dice and i compare that to flipping a coin, the relative amount of information yielded is based on the number of distinct outcomes given some arbitrary constraints (what side is facing "up" for each object assuming the human operates the object fairly). If we then do some reasoning using this relative difference in amount of information, the physical, thermodynamic reality of the human doing the action, the object moving through space, etc etc is arbitrarily stripped away, but with no impact to the soundness of the reasoning about the information (assuming the human has not rigged the system/the entropy source is sound). Sorta like algebra over a field. Any field can be used so long as the axioms of the algebra hold. So it all comes down to soundness of entropy sources...? (this has improved my understanding of information theory _significantly_ :pray:)
- sunscream89 1y ago
  > Information is certainty, entropy is uncertainty. That is wrong. There is NEVER certainty. Certainly is a lie. Certainty is a dillusion. Listen carefully: “information removes uncertainty.” Do you see? The most well intending self deceptions begin with a misinterpretation. Like Shannon and his prime example. He did not say “entropy is the number of possible states.” If you excite an electron valence (increase potential) would these values not change to the next shelf? Everyone who heard what they wanted to hear. There is no certainty, even the memory fades. You will always ask yourself if you did the right thing or picked the right one. Ten years from now some missing piece will come to light and perspectives will change. Certainty never “existed” only the illusion of closure. We do the best we can when necessary with what we have. That is success, not certainty. We cannot find certainty, only optimal solutions. In a universe governed by entropy, that everything dissolves to time is the only certainty.

j_chance 1y ago

Ok this took some time to think about. I've always conflated entropy and randomness/data, but this is wrong. Say that i sample 512 bytes of data from an entropy source. That data is no longer entropic, because it's no longer uncertain. It's now information (assuming it can be used to inform about the entropy source). It may be random looking, but not entropic. I think I see what you mean. Information and entropy are fundamental opposites, information cannot be entropy and entropy cannot be information. Information is certainty, entropy is uncertainty. So with information theory, we measure entropy sources to get information, but it's disconnected from the reality of entropy in physical processes. Which is maybe fine? It seems like an abstraction that is 0 cost. Like if i roll a dice and i compare that to flipping a coin, the relative amount of information yielded is based on the number of distinct outcomes given some arbitrary constraints (what side is facing "up" for each object assuming the human operates the object fairly). If we then do some reasoning using this relative difference in amount of information, the physical, thermodynamic reality of the human doing the action, the object moving through space, etc etc is arbitrarily stripped away, but with no impact to the soundness of the reasoning about the information (assuming the human has not rigged the system/the entropy source is sound). Sorta like algebra over a field. Any field can be used so long as the axioms of the algebra hold. So it all comes down to soundness of entropy sources...? (this has improved my understanding of information theory _significantly_ :pray:)

sunscream89 1y ago
> Information is certainty, entropy is uncertainty. That is wrong. There is NEVER certainty. Certainly is a lie. Certainty is a dillusion. Listen carefully: “information removes uncertainty.” Do you see? The most well intending self deceptions begin with a misinterpretation. Like Shannon and his prime example. He did not say “entropy is the number of possible states.” If you excite an electron valence (increase potential) would these values not change to the next shelf? Everyone who heard what they wanted to hear. There is no certainty, even the memory fades. You will always ask yourself if you did the right thing or picked the right one. Ten years from now some missing piece will come to light and perspectives will change. Certainty never “existed” only the illusion of closure. We do the best we can when necessary with what we have. That is success, not certainty. We cannot find certainty, only optimal solutions. In a universe governed by entropy, that everything dissolves to time is the only certainty.