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I think the solution is to knock them down to a point that they are like India or Russia. Just big countries but stuck. I wouldn’t mind if we could make some

I think the solution is to knock them down to a point that they are like India or Russia. Just big countries but stuck. I wouldn’t mind if we could make some plays to revamp Japan and some EU, and maybe grow India while boxing China and Russia together. As long as those countries have governments that aren’t on our side or at least sympathetic to our vision, they should be kept in check hard. Like manufacturing stuff for us but not really being able to use any of it. Sounds harsh but that’s reality. Nothing personal lol All they’ve done is steal anyway and extracting knowledge from us after we showed them how to make a factory (reductionist but idc), so it’s not like we would be “morally” wrong.

ubercore 1y ago
How do you expect them to manufacture stuff but not learn from it in the process?
- moomoo11 1y ago
  That’s not what I meant, sorry my sentence structure was bad and I meant that in return for giving them factories they only continued to push the boundaries. It was IP thefts and infiltrating our top secrets because America is a far more open society than PRC. Fact: They are the ones who escalated into IP theft and espionage. As for manufacturing but not learning from it… Oligarchies stemming from massive but continued financial shocks will curb innovation because survival trumps ambition. They are rivals until they’re on our side, and as such if they’re kept financially insecure they will not have the appetite to steal I mean innovate anymore. People want just a job, food, and shelter. CCP already provides education and healthcare. But adversarial global ambitions need to be checked.
zonghao 1y ago
I often browse Hacker News and like it here. As a young Chinese entrepreneur, comments like these make me feel frustrated. China has a large wealth gap, and we have many people with lower education levels who earn meager wages through manual labor to support their families, highly dependent on manufacturing for income. In a sense, they are somewhat like the American Rust Belt before the loss of manufacturing (though they probably don't live as well as Americans, as they can afford neither homes nor cars). The setbacks manufacturing faces in international trade are making their lives even worse. I can roughly understand why you made such a comment, because many friendly and kind people around you are, or have been, worse off due to the competition between our countries. The people around me are also friendly and kind, and I think the best outcome should be for all of us to live better, rather than one side getting better at the expense of the other. I think we should find ways to develop that benefit everyone, because we are all human, and those who are awake when you are sleeping are not bad people.
- yetihehe 1y ago
  I would agree with you, if I didn't hear many times about Chinese government repressing other nations just for being near China and not being fully Chinese. Maybe people near you are kind and friendly and I would like to help them, but I'm afraid that some Chinese people with guns will also come to me. How would you solve that problem?
  - eptcyka 1y ago
    All big countries do that, look at the US meddling with the while of South America and the Middle East. China does the same.
    - mensetmanusman 1y ago
      What precisely do you mean in regards to South America? Or are you referencing 19th century policies?
      - kelipso 1y ago
        https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the... There are lots more.
      - nerdsniper 1y ago
        1954 - The USA overthrew a democratic government in Guatemala and replaced it with a violent dictatorship so that we could keep getting cheap bananas.
      - Teever 1y ago
        You took the bait. The person you're replying to would much rather have a discussion about the well-documented atrocities of a waning American empire than the far less documented atrocities of a waxing Chinese Empire that has no democratic institutions to keep it in check.
nemomarx 1y ago
I can't think of any way you could effect this. They have more industrial capacity and increasingly more research than the US. Heck I don't think India is going to be stuck for very long
appease7727 1y ago
So you think the USA should interfere in a sovereign nation to intentionally and drastically damage their economy, industry, and quality of life? Because the US can't get their collective heads out of their asses to build a competitive industry? The USA is losing this imagined fight with China, and the solution is not to destroy an entire nation, but to actually become competitive. Sure, let's just fucking nuke every country that's more successful than us. That'll show them! Americans are absolutely fucking insane.
- moomoo11 1y ago
  It was because they backstabbed us. We showed them how factories work and helped them set up manufacturing back in the day so we could be cooperation partners. Instead we were backstabbed by the CCP through IP theft and other corporate espionage. Yes America wanted a cheaper manufacturing partner and China at the time when “real communism” was fading seemed like a good partner to onboard for the new century ahead. I don’t think Americans are insane. It’s that Americans have to live in a world dominated by warlords, weirdos (Kim Jon Un and others like him), shithead dictators and religious zealots. We aspire to achieve greatness and manifest destiny. Meanwhile we are blocked by literally everyone else who can’t get their shit together. So yes, it’s necessary for our end goals. I don’t think it’s as bad as what others were already doing to each other before our intervention (hey nothing is perfect and punching up is easy af). It’s not like others don’t benefit. I’m sure for the majority where it worked out they like the GDP boost and using American tech and services. Or they can also copy what we tried and worked and try implementing it there. While we are building cool stuff, we have to live in a mostly evil world with awful dictators and zealots of all sorts (commies, sky daddy, etc). It took Europe 50 years to chill tf out and we had to bail them out each time they kicked off a world war. Most of the world is still not a desirable place to live (it’s why my parents moved from a hellhole to here for a better life). If some people think we are crazy then I suggest they don’t come here for education (even if they plan to go back) or work. Save the room for someone else who actually wants to join the American journey.
  - thicTurtlLverXX 1y ago
    > we showed.. > we aspire... > we were backstabbed... > we are blocked... > we are building... > we have to... > we had to... > we are crazy... It's not 'we,' it's just your opinion, comrade. If the USA were actually run by people with views the same as yours, it'd be no different from Russia or China. But thankfully, there are still many who get that life is about collaboration and compromise, who don't live in fear nor have the dream of domination.

ubercore 1y ago

How do you expect them to manufacture stuff but not learn from it in the process?

moomoo11 1y ago
That’s not what I meant, sorry my sentence structure was bad and I meant that in return for giving them factories they only continued to push the boundaries. It was IP thefts and infiltrating our top secrets because America is a far more open society than PRC. Fact: They are the ones who escalated into IP theft and espionage. As for manufacturing but not learning from it… Oligarchies stemming from massive but continued financial shocks will curb innovation because survival trumps ambition. They are rivals until they’re on our side, and as such if they’re kept financially insecure they will not have the appetite to steal I mean innovate anymore. People want just a job, food, and shelter. CCP already provides education and healthcare. But adversarial global ambitions need to be checked.

zonghao 1y ago

I often browse Hacker News and like it here. As a young Chinese entrepreneur, comments like these make me feel frustrated. China has a large wealth gap, and we have many people with lower education levels who earn meager wages through manual labor to support their families, highly dependent on manufacturing for income. In a sense, they are somewhat like the American Rust Belt before the loss of manufacturing (though they probably don't live as well as Americans, as they can afford neither homes nor cars). The setbacks manufacturing faces in international trade are making their lives even worse. I can roughly understand why you made such a comment, because many friendly and kind people around you are, or have been, worse off due to the competition between our countries. The people around me are also friendly and kind, and I think the best outcome should be for all of us to live better, rather than one side getting better at the expense of the other. I think we should find ways to develop that benefit everyone, because we are all human, and those who are awake when you are sleeping are not bad people.

yetihehe 1y ago
I would agree with you, if I didn't hear many times about Chinese government repressing other nations just for being near China and not being fully Chinese. Maybe people near you are kind and friendly and I would like to help them, but I'm afraid that some Chinese people with guns will also come to me. How would you solve that problem?
- eptcyka 1y ago
  All big countries do that, look at the US meddling with the while of South America and the Middle East. China does the same.
  - mensetmanusman 1y ago
    What precisely do you mean in regards to South America? Or are you referencing 19th century policies?
    - kelipso 1y ago
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in_regime_change_in_Latin_America https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_involvement_in... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_interventions_by_the... There are lots more.
    - nerdsniper 1y ago
      1954 - The USA overthrew a democratic government in Guatemala and replaced it with a violent dictatorship so that we could keep getting cheap bananas.
    - Teever 1y ago
      You took the bait. The person you're replying to would much rather have a discussion about the well-documented atrocities of a waning American empire than the far less documented atrocities of a waxing Chinese Empire that has no democratic institutions to keep it in check.

nemomarx 1y ago

I can't think of any way you could effect this. They have more industrial capacity and increasingly more research than the US. Heck I don't think India is going to be stuck for very long

appease7727 1y ago

So you think the USA should interfere in a sovereign nation to intentionally and drastically damage their economy, industry, and quality of life? Because the US can't get their collective heads out of their asses to build a competitive industry? The USA is losing this imagined fight with China, and the solution is not to destroy an entire nation, but to actually become competitive. Sure, let's just fucking nuke every country that's more successful than us. That'll show them! Americans are absolutely fucking insane.

moomoo11 1y ago
It was because they backstabbed us. We showed them how factories work and helped them set up manufacturing back in the day so we could be cooperation partners. Instead we were backstabbed by the CCP through IP theft and other corporate espionage. Yes America wanted a cheaper manufacturing partner and China at the time when “real communism” was fading seemed like a good partner to onboard for the new century ahead. I don’t think Americans are insane. It’s that Americans have to live in a world dominated by warlords, weirdos (Kim Jon Un and others like him), shithead dictators and religious zealots. We aspire to achieve greatness and manifest destiny. Meanwhile we are blocked by literally everyone else who can’t get their shit together. So yes, it’s necessary for our end goals. I don’t think it’s as bad as what others were already doing to each other before our intervention (hey nothing is perfect and punching up is easy af). It’s not like others don’t benefit. I’m sure for the majority where it worked out they like the GDP boost and using American tech and services. Or they can also copy what we tried and worked and try implementing it there. While we are building cool stuff, we have to live in a mostly evil world with awful dictators and zealots of all sorts (commies, sky daddy, etc). It took Europe 50 years to chill tf out and we had to bail them out each time they kicked off a world war. Most of the world is still not a desirable place to live (it’s why my parents moved from a hellhole to here for a better life). If some people think we are crazy then I suggest they don’t come here for education (even if they plan to go back) or work. Save the room for someone else who actually wants to join the American journey.
- thicTurtlLverXX 1y ago
  > we showed.. > we aspire... > we were backstabbed... > we are blocked... > we are building... > we have to... > we had to... > we are crazy... It's not 'we,' it's just your opinion, comrade. If the USA were actually run by people with views the same as yours, it'd be no different from Russia or China. But thankfully, there are still many who get that life is about collaboration and compromise, who don't live in fear nor have the dream of domination.