4 ms·

It's not shamelessness, it's authenticity. In today's curated, hyperreal society people desperately crave imperfections, cracks in the armour, they want somethi

It's not shamelessness, it's authenticity. In today's curated, hyperreal society people desperately crave imperfections, cracks in the armour, they want something real, something human. They desire vulnerability, in part because it gives them courage to also be vulnerable, to not be afraid of judgement and rejection, and the freedom to be themselves. And I think it's actionable advice for all of us. Be genuine, be vulnerable, and don't be afraid to be your true self. People like that.

SeanSullivan86 1y ago
Senior management doesn't like it, in my experience. But I agree it makes sense for many interactions.
- mmaunder 1y ago
  The legal fiction that is the corporation is the antithesis of authenticity, and the brand they invest so heavily in, its mask. Having an authentic employee risks removing the mask.
  - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
    The rise of corpo-culture is a big factor in the loss of authenticity in society.
    - ebcode 1y ago
      Ding ding ding ding!
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  Not everyone will appreciate your authentic self, that's the inherent risk which requires bravery to overcome. It might also be simply not worth the risk, but either way you should act in a way that you can respect. There are things I wouldn't do because I consider them too risky, but I can still respect myself because I'm the one making the judgement call. It's when I act inauthentically because of the fear, not the risk, that I lose respect for myself and I do my best to avoid it.
apical_dendrite 1y ago
No, it's shamelessness. Shame exists to keep us from engaging in antisocial behavior. If your true self is a liar, a cheat, a cruel person, then you should absolutely be afraid to be your true self.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  That's still authenticity though. What's not authentic is people who conceal those aspects of themselves, and it's also far more dangerous.
  - kaffekaka 1y ago
    What is ones "authentic" self is an illusion. Playing loud crap music on the public transport is not "my authentic self", it is an impulse that I should perhaps just suppress instead. Referring to an "autentic self" does not excuse all kinds of behavior. There exists expressions of some kind of authentic self, sure, but so many things people do are just carelessness or disregard and not actually important to who they are.
  - dana-s 1y ago
    I authentically believe that when I'm angry, I should avoid talking to people in that state, because the me who's seeing things through anger is not a more authentic me than a drunk me would. That said, if you're a liar and conceal that? Yeah worse than being one all the time. Authenticity can be good, bad, mixed bag, if someone is in reality a liar and decide to be so? Authentically hope they keep themselves away from me.
  - arkey 1y ago
    In this paradigm you describe, should we then strive to be authentic or should we refrain? Don't you think this would open the doors to an endless amount of bad behaviours?
    - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
      Yes. No.
dkarl 1y ago
It's a very specific form of authenticity. It's the authenticity of people who don't make an effort, who don't feel any need to try, who know that people are going to accept them and look up to them no matter how shitty they are. But for regular people it's a fantasy. Because it only works if you're rich.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  That isn't true in my experience. Authenticity doesn't require wealth in order to land.
- robocat 1y ago
  What a weird viewpoint. > But for regular people it's a fantasy So for authentic people it's a fantasy??? I can only imagine that either (a) you struggle to differentiate fake authenticity from authentic fakeness or (b) perhaps you don't have enough authentic non-wealthy acquaintances. Some welloff people countersignal successfully. But many don't because status signaling is difficult (evolutionarily). > it only works if you're rich And you imply that you think that people look up to the rich - however many people don't - perhaps that says something about your own pretensions? Disclaimer: I'm a well off geek - definitely not rich and I'm rather poor at recognizing or playing status games.
  - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
    > fake authenticity from authentic fakeness I'm curious what you mean by these, I have an idea but I don't want to misconstrue you.
  - dkarl 1y ago
    I think you're confusing authenticity with DGAF, because they both look like the opposite of insecurity. Trump and Hilton play a DGAF role on TV, but the very fact that they're putting in the effort means that it isn't authentically them. If they really didn't care, we wouldn't know their names, because being wealthy doesn't automatically make you a celebrity. Consider Michael Bloomberg, who briefly flirted with a presidential run, but then discovered that coming from legit middle class roots and achieving orders of magnitude more wealth than Donald Trump meant very little next to the decades of work Trump had put in to build his celebrity status. As celebrities, they have embraced caring about what people as their job, and for them, part of that job is playing out the ordinary person's fantasy of not having to care what people think -- a role that is only authentically them in the sense that they learned it authentically as spoiled rich children. A lot of people experience anxiety in their everyday lives over how other people will perceive them. "Did I do a good enough job? What are people saying about me? What do people actually think about me?" When Trump and Hilton ostentatiously act out being able to be dumb and inept and still being treated like they're amazing, it's the perfect inverse of what causes ordinary people anxiety, which makes it a perfect fantasy.
marcus_holmes 1y ago
Let's take an example: people who play music/video aloud on public transport. In Ye Olden Days of the last century, this would be a shameful act, and people would be shamed for doing it. In our enlightened modern times, people don't give a shit, and trying to shame them into not doing it is pointless. They are shameless about their selfishness, and apparently that's OK now. With the result, as others have said, that we end up in the worst box on the Prisoner's Dilemma choices: we all have to put with other people's shitty taste in music and no-one gets any peace and quiet. I don't get how we write this up as "authenticity" without also concluding that these people authentically have no consideration for the other people around them, and are therefore bad people. I certainly do not want these people to be authentic around me, I would very much like them to have some shame and maintain a considerate front, even if that's not their true nature.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  Authenticity doesn't mean you act in a way that the majority approves of, in fact it's often the opposite case. It also doesn't make any presuppositions about the morality of specific behaviour. To be authentic is to be your true self, despite what others think which requires bravery and that is something people admire. If something is considered shameful is a subjective judgement about behaviours that may or may not be authentic. In fact, people who act authentically are often liked not despite of but because of their flaws. To be human is to be flawed, we're all guilty. And it turns out a lot of people crave permission to not be perfect.
  - hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
    [flagged]
    - gblargg 1y ago
      I don't think you understood the point of the comment you replied to. It was two-fold: what authentic means, and why people prefer imperfect people to be authentic than present a false image. Even your disrespectful response shows its value: you can get feedback that might actually help you improve.
thisisit 1y ago
This sounds like what social media mangers are telling their clients - If you are acting stupid/dumb/shameless and attracting people through rage bait, you are being authentic. Lots of prank channels who harass people shamelessly are certainly going for “authentic” reactions.
tudorizer 1y ago
You might be applying some reverse psychology by claiming shameless == authentic. Does that translate to having shame (in the interpretation of being aware or norms and being considerate to those around) == not authentic? This "freedom to be themselves" works very well when priviledge is at stake.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  Shameless != authentic.
deleted 1y ago
[deleted]
anal_reactor 1y ago
I am a very direct person, and conversations with me often include very personal topics. I've noticed that at the beginning yes, this attracts at least some people who want to have serious conversations, but after some time it simply creates a new culture with new set of rules where you wear a different kind of mask. Everyone claims to crave authenticity, but when actually faced with it, most people back off.
metalman 1y ago
shamelessness and counter signalling can be seen in another phenominon where the difference between bieng crazy or eccentric(authentic) is a million $

SeanSullivan86 1y ago

Senior management doesn't like it, in my experience. But I agree it makes sense for many interactions.

mmaunder 1y ago
The legal fiction that is the corporation is the antithesis of authenticity, and the brand they invest so heavily in, its mask. Having an authentic employee risks removing the mask.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  The rise of corpo-culture is a big factor in the loss of authenticity in society.
  - ebcode 1y ago
    Ding ding ding ding!
b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
Not everyone will appreciate your authentic self, that's the inherent risk which requires bravery to overcome. It might also be simply not worth the risk, but either way you should act in a way that you can respect. There are things I wouldn't do because I consider them too risky, but I can still respect myself because I'm the one making the judgement call. It's when I act inauthentically because of the fear, not the risk, that I lose respect for myself and I do my best to avoid it.

apical_dendrite 1y ago

No, it's shamelessness. Shame exists to keep us from engaging in antisocial behavior. If your true self is a liar, a cheat, a cruel person, then you should absolutely be afraid to be your true self.

b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
That's still authenticity though. What's not authentic is people who conceal those aspects of themselves, and it's also far more dangerous.
- kaffekaka 1y ago
  What is ones "authentic" self is an illusion. Playing loud crap music on the public transport is not "my authentic self", it is an impulse that I should perhaps just suppress instead. Referring to an "autentic self" does not excuse all kinds of behavior. There exists expressions of some kind of authentic self, sure, but so many things people do are just carelessness or disregard and not actually important to who they are.
- dana-s 1y ago
  I authentically believe that when I'm angry, I should avoid talking to people in that state, because the me who's seeing things through anger is not a more authentic me than a drunk me would. That said, if you're a liar and conceal that? Yeah worse than being one all the time. Authenticity can be good, bad, mixed bag, if someone is in reality a liar and decide to be so? Authentically hope they keep themselves away from me.
- arkey 1y ago
  In this paradigm you describe, should we then strive to be authentic or should we refrain? Don't you think this would open the doors to an endless amount of bad behaviours?
  - b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
    Yes. No.

dkarl 1y ago

It's a very specific form of authenticity. It's the authenticity of people who don't make an effort, who don't feel any need to try, who know that people are going to accept them and look up to them no matter how shitty they are. But for regular people it's a fantasy. Because it only works if you're rich.

b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
That isn't true in my experience. Authenticity doesn't require wealth in order to land.
robocat 1y ago
What a weird viewpoint. > But for regular people it's a fantasy So for authentic people it's a fantasy??? I can only imagine that either (a) you struggle to differentiate fake authenticity from authentic fakeness or (b) perhaps you don't have enough authentic non-wealthy acquaintances. Some welloff people countersignal successfully. But many don't because status signaling is difficult (evolutionarily). > it only works if you're rich And you imply that you think that people look up to the rich - however many people don't - perhaps that says something about your own pretensions? Disclaimer: I'm a well off geek - definitely not rich and I'm rather poor at recognizing or playing status games.
- b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
  > fake authenticity from authentic fakeness I'm curious what you mean by these, I have an idea but I don't want to misconstrue you.
- dkarl 1y ago
  I think you're confusing authenticity with DGAF, because they both look like the opposite of insecurity. Trump and Hilton play a DGAF role on TV, but the very fact that they're putting in the effort means that it isn't authentically them. If they really didn't care, we wouldn't know their names, because being wealthy doesn't automatically make you a celebrity. Consider Michael Bloomberg, who briefly flirted with a presidential run, but then discovered that coming from legit middle class roots and achieving orders of magnitude more wealth than Donald Trump meant very little next to the decades of work Trump had put in to build his celebrity status. As celebrities, they have embraced caring about what people as their job, and for them, part of that job is playing out the ordinary person's fantasy of not having to care what people think -- a role that is only authentically them in the sense that they learned it authentically as spoiled rich children. A lot of people experience anxiety in their everyday lives over how other people will perceive them. "Did I do a good enough job? What are people saying about me? What do people actually think about me?" When Trump and Hilton ostentatiously act out being able to be dumb and inept and still being treated like they're amazing, it's the perfect inverse of what causes ordinary people anxiety, which makes it a perfect fantasy.

marcus_holmes 1y ago

Let's take an example: people who play music/video aloud on public transport. In Ye Olden Days of the last century, this would be a shameful act, and people would be shamed for doing it. In our enlightened modern times, people don't give a shit, and trying to shame them into not doing it is pointless. They are shameless about their selfishness, and apparently that's OK now. With the result, as others have said, that we end up in the worst box on the Prisoner's Dilemma choices: we all have to put with other people's shitty taste in music and no-one gets any peace and quiet. I don't get how we write this up as "authenticity" without also concluding that these people authentically have no consideration for the other people around them, and are therefore bad people. I certainly do not want these people to be authentic around me, I would very much like them to have some shame and maintain a considerate front, even if that's not their true nature.

b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
Authenticity doesn't mean you act in a way that the majority approves of, in fact it's often the opposite case. It also doesn't make any presuppositions about the morality of specific behaviour. To be authentic is to be your true self, despite what others think which requires bravery and that is something people admire. If something is considered shameful is a subjective judgement about behaviours that may or may not be authentic. In fact, people who act authentically are often liked not despite of but because of their flaws. To be human is to be flawed, we're all guilty. And it turns out a lot of people crave permission to not be perfect.
- hn_throwaway_99 1y ago
  [flagged]
  - gblargg 1y ago
    I don't think you understood the point of the comment you replied to. It was two-fold: what authentic means, and why people prefer imperfect people to be authentic than present a false image. Even your disrespectful response shows its value: you can get feedback that might actually help you improve.

thisisit 1y ago

This sounds like what social media mangers are telling their clients - If you are acting stupid/dumb/shameless and attracting people through rage bait, you are being authentic. Lots of prank channels who harass people shamelessly are certainly going for “authentic” reactions.

tudorizer 1y ago

You might be applying some reverse psychology by claiming shameless == authentic. Does that translate to having shame (in the interpretation of being aware or norms and being considerate to those around) == not authentic? This "freedom to be themselves" works very well when priviledge is at stake.

b_e_n_t_o_n 1y ago
Shameless != authentic.

deleted 1y ago

[deleted]

anal_reactor 1y ago

I am a very direct person, and conversations with me often include very personal topics. I've noticed that at the beginning yes, this attracts at least some people who want to have serious conversations, but after some time it simply creates a new culture with new set of rules where you wear a different kind of mask. Everyone claims to crave authenticity, but when actually faced with it, most people back off.

metalman 1y ago

shamelessness and counter signalling can be seen in another phenominon where the difference between bieng crazy or eccentric(authentic) is a million $