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Plastic straws are better, as are incandescent light bulbs. The proof is in the pudding / free market. If the alternatives (paper straws, LED bulbs) were bette

by tomp 1y ago

Plastic straws are better, as are incandescent light bulbs. The proof is in the pudding / free market. If the alternatives (paper straws, LED bulbs) were better, people would voluntarily buy them! (cf: mobile phones vs. stationary phones, almost noone has the latter these days, because the former are just - better!) Instead, they're banned because they're better.

tyleo 1y ago
That seems like bs to me. Normal people aren’t really buying much straws and I don’t know anyone still preferring the incandescent bulbs except maybe in some Christmas varieties. edit: I looked into it and incandescent bulbs aren’t normally preferred but there’s a small following. Even the following admits LED bulbs have a lot of benefits. It seems they just don’t like all the colors.
- cosmic_cheese 1y ago
  Incandescent bulbs produce pleasant light, but there are LED bulbs that have high CRI’s that the discerning consumer can opt to buy. The best thing to do here in my opinion is to encourage improvement of LED bulb tech by buying the nicer ones instead of cheaping out on low CRI bulbs.
- SoftTalker 1y ago
  LED bulbs are about 10x the price and don’t last any longer. That’s what I don’t like. I’d buy them if the cost the same or close, or lasted substantially longer.
  - acdha 1y ago
    Citation needed on both points. The LED bulbs I'm using right now were less than double the price when I bought my house 15 years ago and while every incandescent and CFL bulb in the house has failed and been replaced since then, the LED bulbs I bought are still going strong and have paid for themselves many times over with 90% reduction in electricity usage.
    - rectang 1y ago
      Anecdotally, the LED bulbs I've bought from Ace Hardware (BR30 for 65 watt recessed kitchen lighting, and A19 for 75 watt classic bulbs) have consistently failed on order-of-months timescales similar to incandescents. Same with some Feit A19s from a few years back. But they cost more than incandescents! Apparently the market tolerates this garbage even though LEDs are supposed to be a superior technology and last longer (and some I've bought years ago have, I just don't remember the brand and it was in another house). Perhaps Ace is practicing planned obsolescence and taking advantage of their customers' expectations that "light bulbs get replaced"?
      - tmeasday 1y ago
        Yeah, weird (see reply to sibling). I have Philips Hue bulbs and I literally haven't replaced any of the ones I put in like 3-4 years ago.
      - acdha 1y ago
        Have you returned them? I have a number of Feit bulbs which are in their second decade so I don't think it's as simple as a particular vendor skimping.
    - SoftTalker 1y ago
      Don't need a citation, as it's my personal experience. I'm not going to do a market research project for fskcing light bulbs. I buy them at Target, or wherever. They maybe last a year, like incandescents. Occasionally they last much less, like a week. And when they die, they are e-waste (at least better than CFLs, which are straight up hazmat waste). An incandescent bulb is a bit of glass and metal. I used to find incandescent bulbs 4 for a dollar on sale. An LED bulb is typically at least a couple of bucks, that's why I say 10x the price. I will grant they use less electricity, but my electric bill hasn't noticably changed. The amount of electricity I use for lights in my home isn't even noise in my monthly budget. But what is annoying is having to get out a stepladder once a month to change a bulb, when the huge selling point on these bulbs is that they were worth the price because they would last 10x as long.
  - p_j_w 1y ago
    >LED bulbs are about 10x the price and don’t last any longer. Every bit of research I've ever seen shows LEDs DO last substantially longer. 5-50x longer, depending on which kinda light you'd like to compare to [1]. They're also much cheaper over the long run when you factor in the cost of electricity. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136403211630781X?casa_token=DWR5ve-CqAQAAAAA:Qrfl3sAN1M01TbzHjeKPx7hE7boGD0dfCibad0wjbaxc9T6UQb92JBfXZamtvHKntYA_dpFv#s0020 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136403211...
  - throwaway2016a 1y ago
    When was the last time you actually priced them out? When they first came up they were pricy but unless you're talking about fancy smart-bulbs with Wifi and color changing, they are not 10x the price. And they empirically last 5-20+ times longer. So even before you consider that a huge portion of the energy put into incandescence is lost to heat (thereby making it cost MUCH more in electricity), they are still roughly the same price after accounting for lifespan.
  - OfficeChad 1y ago
    [dead]
- trenchpilgrim 1y ago
  Interestingly, there's a company that makes LED Christmas lights that look like incandescent lights. They've gotten quite popular- they have to be bought by preordering in summer to guarantee a set by the holidays. https://www.seasonsreflection.com/vintaglo https://www.seasonsreflection.com/vintaglo
Loocid 1y ago
>The proof is in the pudding / free market. Dumping toxic waste into a river would also lower costs for consumers vs disposing of it correctly, but there are regulations to prevent that. Complete unobstructed free market capitalism is not sustainable, there needs to be a balance.
delecti 1y ago
I'm not going to defend paper straws; plastic straws weren't banned because they're better or worse, they're banned because of a viral video of a sea turtle with one stuck up its nose. LED bulbs are absolutely better though. They output so much less waste heat, and they last so much longer. > "free market" is only temporary, until the "bad" thing simply gets banned How can the alternatives get better, if regressive municipalities preemptively ban them to prevent "slippery slopes"?
- tomp 1y ago
  > preemptively ban them I'm not the one who started banning though. I'd be open to first unbanning plastic straws and incandescent light bulbs, then unbanning artificial meat. Let the market decide! But I definitely want to ban them before they ban me.

by tomp 1y ago

tyleo 1y ago

That seems like bs to me. Normal people aren’t really buying much straws and I don’t know anyone still preferring the incandescent bulbs except maybe in some Christmas varieties. edit: I looked into it and incandescent bulbs aren’t normally preferred but there’s a small following. Even the following admits LED bulbs have a lot of benefits. It seems they just don’t like all the colors.

cosmic_cheese 1y ago
Incandescent bulbs produce pleasant light, but there are LED bulbs that have high CRI’s that the discerning consumer can opt to buy. The best thing to do here in my opinion is to encourage improvement of LED bulb tech by buying the nicer ones instead of cheaping out on low CRI bulbs.
SoftTalker 1y ago
LED bulbs are about 10x the price and don’t last any longer. That’s what I don’t like. I’d buy them if the cost the same or close, or lasted substantially longer.
- acdha 1y ago
  Citation needed on both points. The LED bulbs I'm using right now were less than double the price when I bought my house 15 years ago and while every incandescent and CFL bulb in the house has failed and been replaced since then, the LED bulbs I bought are still going strong and have paid for themselves many times over with 90% reduction in electricity usage.
  - rectang 1y ago
    Anecdotally, the LED bulbs I've bought from Ace Hardware (BR30 for 65 watt recessed kitchen lighting, and A19 for 75 watt classic bulbs) have consistently failed on order-of-months timescales similar to incandescents. Same with some Feit A19s from a few years back. But they cost more than incandescents! Apparently the market tolerates this garbage even though LEDs are supposed to be a superior technology and last longer (and some I've bought years ago have, I just don't remember the brand and it was in another house). Perhaps Ace is practicing planned obsolescence and taking advantage of their customers' expectations that "light bulbs get replaced"?
    - tmeasday 1y ago
      Yeah, weird (see reply to sibling). I have Philips Hue bulbs and I literally haven't replaced any of the ones I put in like 3-4 years ago.
    - acdha 1y ago
      Have you returned them? I have a number of Feit bulbs which are in their second decade so I don't think it's as simple as a particular vendor skimping.
  - SoftTalker 1y ago
    Don't need a citation, as it's my personal experience. I'm not going to do a market research project for fskcing light bulbs. I buy them at Target, or wherever. They maybe last a year, like incandescents. Occasionally they last much less, like a week. And when they die, they are e-waste (at least better than CFLs, which are straight up hazmat waste). An incandescent bulb is a bit of glass and metal. I used to find incandescent bulbs 4 for a dollar on sale. An LED bulb is typically at least a couple of bucks, that's why I say 10x the price. I will grant they use less electricity, but my electric bill hasn't noticably changed. The amount of electricity I use for lights in my home isn't even noise in my monthly budget. But what is annoying is having to get out a stepladder once a month to change a bulb, when the huge selling point on these bulbs is that they were worth the price because they would last 10x as long.
- p_j_w 1y ago
  >LED bulbs are about 10x the price and don’t last any longer. Every bit of research I've ever seen shows LEDs DO last substantially longer. 5-50x longer, depending on which kinda light you'd like to compare to [1]. They're also much cheaper over the long run when you factor in the cost of electricity. [1] https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136403211630781X?casa_token=DWR5ve-CqAQAAAAA:Qrfl3sAN1M01TbzHjeKPx7hE7boGD0dfCibad0wjbaxc9T6UQb92JBfXZamtvHKntYA_dpFv#s0020 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S136403211...
- throwaway2016a 1y ago
  When was the last time you actually priced them out? When they first came up they were pricy but unless you're talking about fancy smart-bulbs with Wifi and color changing, they are not 10x the price. And they empirically last 5-20+ times longer. So even before you consider that a huge portion of the energy put into incandescence is lost to heat (thereby making it cost MUCH more in electricity), they are still roughly the same price after accounting for lifespan.
- OfficeChad 1y ago
  [dead]
trenchpilgrim 1y ago
Interestingly, there's a company that makes LED Christmas lights that look like incandescent lights. They've gotten quite popular- they have to be bought by preordering in summer to guarantee a set by the holidays. https://www.seasonsreflection.com/vintaglo https://www.seasonsreflection.com/vintaglo

Loocid 1y ago

>The proof is in the pudding / free market. Dumping toxic waste into a river would also lower costs for consumers vs disposing of it correctly, but there are regulations to prevent that. Complete unobstructed free market capitalism is not sustainable, there needs to be a balance.

delecti 1y ago

I'm not going to defend paper straws; plastic straws weren't banned because they're better or worse, they're banned because of a viral video of a sea turtle with one stuck up its nose. LED bulbs are absolutely better though. They output so much less waste heat, and they last so much longer. > "free market" is only temporary, until the "bad" thing simply gets banned How can the alternatives get better, if regressive municipalities preemptively ban them to prevent "slippery slopes"?

tomp 1y ago
> preemptively ban them I'm not the one who started banning though. I'd be open to first unbanning plastic straws and incandescent light bulbs, then unbanning artificial meat. Let the market decide! But I definitely want to ban them before they ban me.