3 ms·

Is it also bad karma to let people kill npc in videogames? If yes, why? If not, how is it different?

• nis0s 1y ago
  For one, an NPC is a simulated process which mimics something alive, and not alive itself.
  • bigyabai 1y ago
    An LLM is a simulated process that mimics a byproduct of certain sapient beings. How are NPCs markedly different?
    • nis0s 1y ago
      Well, semen is literally the byproduct of sapient beings. What moral and ethical considerations are given to it, or should be given to it? LLMs are an advanced automata which lack self-regulation and self-reflection, similarly to NPCs. NPCs cannot exist outside of rules set out for them, and neither can LLMs. I’ll add that semen is in fact a better candidate for moral and ethical consideration given that it can produce conscious beings. As soon as NPCs and LLMs do that, please give them moral status.
      • ghssds 1y ago
        I don't even know if consciousness can be achieved from computation. Consider xkcd 505 [0]. Would you consider the inhabitants of that simulated universe conscious? 0: https://xkcd.com/505/ https://xkcd.com/505/
        • nis0s 1y ago
          I can’t comment on the comic because I can’t read it well on my phone. But I am of the view that consciousness can be achieved through silicon-process computation if there are emergent properties which can convert discrete feature processing into perceptual experience. Therefore, I don’t think AI can ever achieve consciousness in a disembodied form (brain in a vat hypothesis), as I don’t think that’s how higher-level consciousness works. Okay, I read the comic on my computer. If agents in the simulated universe possess higher-level consciousness, then they're no different from us. Maybe the timescale of their perceptual experience is different from ours. We need to be careful, though, about fooling ourselves into thinking there is a conscious being where there might just be a faithful imitation. How do you tell the difference? I think this is a useful concept, even though I think it has its flaws https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philosophical_zombie
        • xyzzy123 1y ago
          I'm not sure if the question is answerable given that consciousness is not well defined enough for everyone to agree on whether, say, a fly is conscious. Instead maybe we can think about the system that comprises us, the models, anthropic, and society at large etc and ask which kinds of actions lead to better moral / ethical outcomes for this larger system. I also believe it helps to consider specific situations rather than to ask if x or y is "worthy" of moral consideration.[1] For the NPCs in games thing I am honestly still unpacking it, but I genuinely think no harm is done. The reason is that the intent of the user is not to cause harm or suffering to another "being". It seems like people are surprisingly robust at distinguishing between fantasy and reality in that scenario. We can notice that drone operators get PTSD / moral injury at fairly high rates while FPS players don't, even though at a surface level the pixels are the same. I do think a drone operator who believed they were killing, even though the whole thing was secretly a simulation, could be injured by "killing" an NPC. [1] Dichotomies / assigning utilitarian "worth" etc without broader consideration of the situation and kind of world we want seems to result in essays full of repugnant conclusions where the author's "gotcha" is that if we assign any value at all to the life of a shrimp in any situation, we have to fill the entire light cone with them as rapidly as possible or some such nonsense. [To be clear, this is undesirable from my perspective].
• xyzzy123 1y ago
  Great question, I don't know. It doesn't seem necessary to feel empathy for a pawn knocked off a chess board. I do think a detailed and realistic torture simulator game would be a bad idea though. Thinking it through I feel it is maybe about intent?
• mac-attack 1y ago
  Wouldn't our treatment/abuse of animals be a better, more obvious example?