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At my last apartment before I moved into a home where I did have the ability to install a charger, they had 4 EV chargering spots in the parking garage. I belie

At my last apartment before I moved into a home where I did have the ability to install a charger, they had 4 EV chargering spots in the parking garage. I believe residents just had to pay the normal residential electricity rate to use them, they were standard commercial level 2 chargers like the kind you see in public parking lots. All this to say, if the demand is there then shared parking structures will install them. I live in a city with a fairly high percentage of EVs, but it will continue to spread.

hedora 1y ago
We get away with level 1 chargers, and live far from the city. Residential lots could easily get away with one level one charger per spot. (The wattage is < 25% that of one level 2 charger, so you can put in 4x as many with the same backend connection to the grid.) For city commuters, this would probably be more than good enough.
- connicpu 1y ago
  Yep absolutely, I used a level 1 charger at home for a couple years and it could easily recharge my daily work commute in about 5-8 hours (depending on season). Even now the only upgrade I did was move to a 240V16A charger because I wanted it to be a little quicker after long trips, but most of the time I limit the charge rate to 8A to preserve battery health.
- WorldMaker 1y ago
  Yeah, Level 1 charging is way too easily overlooked in the US. A lot of US parking lots could add simple Level 1 outlets to most lamp posts and do a lot, easily, for EV charging. (Most traditional halogen lamps were nearly Level 2 circuits, prior to recent switches to LEDs. If the LED transition had been timed a little different there might be way more L2 chargers "easily" installed in parking lots.) A bit of an aside: I think part of the public perception problem is calling Level 1 "chargers" and not just "outlets". At so many points in our discourse, especially in the US, we've let car manufacturers sell us this idea of "gas-pump-like capital-C Charger" as something bulky and "hard/expensive to install", but really most EVs just need more wall outlets, classic, boring electrical outlets. Sure, the US can blame Edison that we don't have Level 2 as a default outlet and our cheapest/easiest outlets are Level 1, yet still we need to stop underestimating L1. The other thing beyond "don't discount L1 as a reliable way to charge" (slow and steady charges the race car, eh) is "don't discount the power of destination chargers". Everywhere you park is a possible place for a charger. If you can't get one easily at home, maybe your employer can build one. Your grocery store and your church or bar or pickle ball court or other third place can build one. (Especially Level 1. Outdoor outlets have always been a thing, moving them a little closer to parking spaces shouldn't always be a big deal. Boring old electrical outlets are "everywhere" already, we just aren't always yet in the mode of thinking about them, their ubiquity, and how they can charge our cars, while we eat or shop or work or hang out or play or sleep.)
  - connicpu 1y ago
    I think the biggest hurdle to just doing that is who pays for the electricity. Sure right now it's a nice perk you can provide your EV owning visitors that probably won't cost too much, but in a world where 10%+ of cars are EVs the costs will add up even at level 1, so you'll need to go for capital-C Chargers that come with payment infrastructure.
    - matthewdgreen 1y ago
      WiFi-controlled 120V outlet plugs cost $20 or less retail (including tariff costs.) Those aren’t rated for the sorts of continuous draw an L1 charger needs, but upgrading the hardware to handle this isn’t going to make the hardware crushingly expensive. So the actual question mostly comes down to software and integration. Seems like a good ycombinator business. Think of the TAM!
      - WorldMaker 1y ago
        I do keep joking that I've got hundreds of dollars to invest in the first restaurant that wants to be the McDonald's of EV Charging. (The early business model of McDonald's was notoriously putting one near almost every interstate exit so it became a ubiquitous staple of the driving landscape.) Could be McDonald's itself. The Sonic-style of sit-in-your car "drive in" restaurant seems almost like a preternatural echo of an EV restaurant business. It would be a beautiful irony if Cracker Barrel decided EV charging was the next great idea; sit in a rocking chair and peruse the gift shop of very analog goods while you wait for your car to charge sounds like a smart business model to me. Some company that wants a restaurant near every interstate exit to build their brand is going to figure out that the economics of electric charging are simpler than they expect and with it they build a potentially very loyal audience of travelers with easily 30+ minutes a stop on their hands to eat, shop, what-have-you. Maybe it will be one of the old guard of such restaurants, maybe it will be a new disruptor. If someone on HN wants to start it, I have a very tiny seed fund round in the hundreds of dollars to invest.
    - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
      one answer would be to make the parking spaces expensive enough to account for electricity. parking meters are pretty widely adopted.

hedora 1y ago

We get away with level 1 chargers, and live far from the city. Residential lots could easily get away with one level one charger per spot. (The wattage is < 25% that of one level 2 charger, so you can put in 4x as many with the same backend connection to the grid.) For city commuters, this would probably be more than good enough.

connicpu 1y ago
Yep absolutely, I used a level 1 charger at home for a couple years and it could easily recharge my daily work commute in about 5-8 hours (depending on season). Even now the only upgrade I did was move to a 240V16A charger because I wanted it to be a little quicker after long trips, but most of the time I limit the charge rate to 8A to preserve battery health.
WorldMaker 1y ago
Yeah, Level 1 charging is way too easily overlooked in the US. A lot of US parking lots could add simple Level 1 outlets to most lamp posts and do a lot, easily, for EV charging. (Most traditional halogen lamps were nearly Level 2 circuits, prior to recent switches to LEDs. If the LED transition had been timed a little different there might be way more L2 chargers "easily" installed in parking lots.) A bit of an aside: I think part of the public perception problem is calling Level 1 "chargers" and not just "outlets". At so many points in our discourse, especially in the US, we've let car manufacturers sell us this idea of "gas-pump-like capital-C Charger" as something bulky and "hard/expensive to install", but really most EVs just need more wall outlets, classic, boring electrical outlets. Sure, the US can blame Edison that we don't have Level 2 as a default outlet and our cheapest/easiest outlets are Level 1, yet still we need to stop underestimating L1. The other thing beyond "don't discount L1 as a reliable way to charge" (slow and steady charges the race car, eh) is "don't discount the power of destination chargers". Everywhere you park is a possible place for a charger. If you can't get one easily at home, maybe your employer can build one. Your grocery store and your church or bar or pickle ball court or other third place can build one. (Especially Level 1. Outdoor outlets have always been a thing, moving them a little closer to parking spaces shouldn't always be a big deal. Boring old electrical outlets are "everywhere" already, we just aren't always yet in the mode of thinking about them, their ubiquity, and how they can charge our cars, while we eat or shop or work or hang out or play or sleep.)
- connicpu 1y ago
  I think the biggest hurdle to just doing that is who pays for the electricity. Sure right now it's a nice perk you can provide your EV owning visitors that probably won't cost too much, but in a world where 10%+ of cars are EVs the costs will add up even at level 1, so you'll need to go for capital-C Chargers that come with payment infrastructure.
  - matthewdgreen 1y ago
    WiFi-controlled 120V outlet plugs cost $20 or less retail (including tariff costs.) Those aren’t rated for the sorts of continuous draw an L1 charger needs, but upgrading the hardware to handle this isn’t going to make the hardware crushingly expensive. So the actual question mostly comes down to software and integration. Seems like a good ycombinator business. Think of the TAM!
    - WorldMaker 1y ago
      I do keep joking that I've got hundreds of dollars to invest in the first restaurant that wants to be the McDonald's of EV Charging. (The early business model of McDonald's was notoriously putting one near almost every interstate exit so it became a ubiquitous staple of the driving landscape.) Could be McDonald's itself. The Sonic-style of sit-in-your car "drive in" restaurant seems almost like a preternatural echo of an EV restaurant business. It would be a beautiful irony if Cracker Barrel decided EV charging was the next great idea; sit in a rocking chair and peruse the gift shop of very analog goods while you wait for your car to charge sounds like a smart business model to me. Some company that wants a restaurant near every interstate exit to build their brand is going to figure out that the economics of electric charging are simpler than they expect and with it they build a potentially very loyal audience of travelers with easily 30+ minutes a stop on their hands to eat, shop, what-have-you. Maybe it will be one of the old guard of such restaurants, maybe it will be a new disruptor. If someone on HN wants to start it, I have a very tiny seed fund round in the hundreds of dollars to invest.
  - adgjlsfhk1 1y ago
    one answer would be to make the parking spaces expensive enough to account for electricity. parking meters are pretty widely adopted.