3 ms·

"Legend’s death was not a fluke. It was the expected outcome of a system working exactly as designed." I find this to be a very disingenuous take. No one "exac

"Legend’s death was not a fluke. It was the expected outcome of a system working exactly as designed." I find this to be a very disingenuous take. No one "exactly designed" this road to kill children. There were clearly tradeoffs made for vehicle vs pedestrian usefulness and it's worth examining those if we want the space to be used differently, but this is exploitive rage bait.

toomuchtodo 1y ago
America cares more about cars than pedestrians. The system is working as designed. Maybe there should be some rage? Traffic deaths are a public health crisis in the U.S. - https://harvardpublichealth.org/policy-practice/car-accidents-with-pedestrians-cyclists-are-too-common-in-u-s/ https://harvardpublichealth.org/policy-practice/car-accident... - December 13th, 2023 The car is king in the US – and pedestrian deaths are rising. Where is the outrage? - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/27/car-road-deaths-rising-pedestrians-cyclists https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/27/car-ro... - June 27th, 2023 US pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490283 (92 comments) | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36480122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36480122 - June 2023 (607 comments) Counterpoint: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44736025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44736025 - July 2025 (651 comments) Hoboken Hasn’t Had a Traffic Death in Four Years. What’s It Doing Right? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31799733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31799733 - June 2022 (15 comments) Oslo got pedestrian and cyclist deaths down to zero. Here’s how - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25197102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25197102 - November 2020 (109 comments) New York’s success provides road map for others taking aim at pedestrian deaths - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710199 - August 2018 (149 comments) HN Search: pedestrian deaths - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=pedestrian%20deaths&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... traffic deaths - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=traffic%20deaths&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...
- deleted 1y ago
  [deleted]
csoups14 1y ago
The author didn't say the road was designed to kill children. They said the system was working exactly as designed in that it prioritizes vehicular traffic over other concerns and this is a predictable side effect of that prioritization.
jgeada 1y ago
The tradeoff was that pedestrians were not considered and any pedestrian death was therefore considered an acceptable tradeoff to allow cars the least encumbrance.
- shortrounddev2 1y ago
  I don't think they considered pedestrian deaths an acceptable trade-off. Probably the way it's framed is "if you don't cross at a crosswalk, your death is your own fault" or "if you let your kids go outside unattended, their deaths are your fault". Nevermind the total lack of crosswalks available. They see these things as examples of rule violations rather than a deficit of pedestrian infrastructure
  - freehorse 1y ago
    It is true that it is not designed to have pedestrians killed; imo it is designed to not have pedestrians at all, and everybody having to have a car to move around. This pays for both the car and the fuel (industries). At least this is my impression from ppl who have lived in the US and told me about how it is like in some places there, have never been myself.
mitthrowaway2 1y ago
Was it designed to be safe for pedestrians? No? No surprise that it isn't. Was it designed to allow someone living in that apartment to cross the street to buy a sandwich? No? Then it's no surprise that it didn't.
andrepd 1y ago
> If this were a neighborhood where people regularly fired guns in the air, we would warn parents to keep their kids inside. A stray bullet may not be intentional, but it’s a predictable outcome of such an environment. This is literally TFA
hashmap 1y ago
> No one "exactly designed" this road to kill children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...
aeturnum 1y ago
You can take a look at the map of West Hudson Bldv[1]. It cuts the area in half with a single crossing point on the road. Try asking google how to get to the Philips Center from anywhere north and google will tell you to cross at West Hudson and Echo, an intersection with no lights and no crosswalk. The author is certainly using hyperbole to make their point, but there is no question this road was not well designed for foot traffic. Boulevards like this often have people driving faster than the speed limit and not expecting people. There is tree cover that makes spotting cars in the distance difficult. These things are simple facts about the road. They would have been known when it was designed and they massively raise the risks for pedestrias as compared to alternate designs. Splitting hairs in the sense that the designers did not "want" to endanger people is hyperbolic as the article. The intent is less important than the effect. [1] https://maps.app.goo.gl/HQ1jTv6JUWa32QGAA https://maps.app.goo.gl/HQ1jTv6JUWa32QGAA
potato3732842 1y ago
I don't care what the standard for culpability is as long as it is applied more or less evenly across all issues.

toomuchtodo 1y ago

America cares more about cars than pedestrians. The system is working as designed. Maybe there should be some rage? Traffic deaths are a public health crisis in the U.S. - https://harvardpublichealth.org/policy-practice/car-accidents-with-pedestrians-cyclists-are-too-common-in-u-s/ https://harvardpublichealth.org/policy-practice/car-accident... - December 13th, 2023 The car is king in the US – and pedestrian deaths are rising. Where is the outrage? - https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/27/car-road-deaths-rising-pedestrians-cyclists https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/jun/27/car-ro... - June 27th, 2023 US pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490283 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36490283 (92 comments) | https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36480122 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36480122 - June 2023 (607 comments) Counterpoint: Helsinki records zero traffic deaths for full year - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44736025 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44736025 - July 2025 (651 comments) Hoboken Hasn’t Had a Traffic Death in Four Years. What’s It Doing Right? - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31799733 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31799733 - June 2022 (15 comments) Oslo got pedestrian and cyclist deaths down to zero. Here’s how - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25197102 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25197102 - November 2020 (109 comments) New York’s success provides road map for others taking aim at pedestrian deaths - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710199 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17710199 - August 2018 (149 comments) HN Search: pedestrian deaths - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=pedestrian%20deaths&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu... traffic deaths - https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&query=traffic%20deaths&sort=byDate&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&qu...

deleted 1y ago
[deleted]

csoups14 1y ago

The author didn't say the road was designed to kill children. They said the system was working exactly as designed in that it prioritizes vehicular traffic over other concerns and this is a predictable side effect of that prioritization.

jgeada 1y ago

The tradeoff was that pedestrians were not considered and any pedestrian death was therefore considered an acceptable tradeoff to allow cars the least encumbrance.

shortrounddev2 1y ago
I don't think they considered pedestrian deaths an acceptable trade-off. Probably the way it's framed is "if you don't cross at a crosswalk, your death is your own fault" or "if you let your kids go outside unattended, their deaths are your fault". Nevermind the total lack of crosswalks available. They see these things as examples of rule violations rather than a deficit of pedestrian infrastructure
- freehorse 1y ago
  It is true that it is not designed to have pedestrians killed; imo it is designed to not have pedestrians at all, and everybody having to have a car to move around. This pays for both the car and the fuel (industries). At least this is my impression from ppl who have lived in the US and told me about how it is like in some places there, have never been myself.

mitthrowaway2 1y ago

Was it designed to be safe for pedestrians? No? No surprise that it isn't. Was it designed to allow someone living in that apartment to cross the street to buy a sandwich? No? Then it's no surprise that it didn't.

andrepd 1y ago

> If this were a neighborhood where people regularly fired guns in the air, we would warn parents to keep their kids inside. A stray bullet may not be intentional, but it’s a predictable outcome of such an environment. This is literally TFA

hashmap 1y ago

> No one "exactly designed" this road to kill children https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_what_it_does https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_purpose_of_a_system_is_wha...

aeturnum 1y ago

You can take a look at the map of West Hudson Bldv[1]. It cuts the area in half with a single crossing point on the road. Try asking google how to get to the Philips Center from anywhere north and google will tell you to cross at West Hudson and Echo, an intersection with no lights and no crosswalk. The author is certainly using hyperbole to make their point, but there is no question this road was not well designed for foot traffic. Boulevards like this often have people driving faster than the speed limit and not expecting people. There is tree cover that makes spotting cars in the distance difficult. These things are simple facts about the road. They would have been known when it was designed and they massively raise the risks for pedestrias as compared to alternate designs. Splitting hairs in the sense that the designers did not "want" to endanger people is hyperbolic as the article. The intent is less important than the effect. [1] https://maps.app.goo.gl/HQ1jTv6JUWa32QGAA https://maps.app.goo.gl/HQ1jTv6JUWa32QGAA

potato3732842 1y ago

I don't care what the standard for culpability is as long as it is applied more or less evenly across all issues.