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"Imagine" ... is virtually the Communist manifesto, even though I'm not particularly a Communist and I do not belong to any movement. —John Lennon

by mhartl 14y ago

"Imagine" ... is virtually the Communist manifesto, even though I'm not particularly a Communist and I do not belong to any movement. —John Lennon Before proposing "Imagine" as a founding document for your political philosophy, you might want to consider the fate of people in nations founded on the principles of the Communist Manifesto. (N.B. I love Lennon's qualification: he's not particularly a Communist—which means, by implication, that he kinda sorta is one, even by his own admission.)

robomartin 14y ago
I don't interpret it that way and certainly don't propose communism. I'm a libertarian, so that would be diametrically opposed to my beliefs. All I am saying is that I think --again, this is my belief-- that the future of humanity probably lies in no countries and governments reduced to simple administrative tasks. I have no desire to be at war with some guy in Iran or Afghanistan any more than a family man there wants to be at war with me. Governments start these things and rope us all into them. I mean, look at World War 1. Why did it even start? http://www.firstworldwar.com/origins/causes.htm http://www.firstworldwar.com/origins/causes.htm Governments. Not the people. Governments. Thirty seven million casualties. http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/resources/casdeath_pop.html http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/resources/casdeath_pop.html Did the farmer or doctor in Germany or Russia want to go to war? Probably not. It was their stupid governments that triggered the entire thing and tens of millions died for it. And that's my point. Governments as we have known them for the last century or two need to mutate into something very different in order for us to evolve further as a society and culture. We can't have the kinds of things you are seeing around the world happen to us. Nobody "owns" me or you. Therefore, the whole concept of governments telling and dictating what we can and cannot do is at odds with what I might call "natural" laws. I, we, hire government workers to do things for us that have community scope. Build roads. Run the local school. Upholds laws that we agree upon, etc. Beyond that, things are completely upside-down. No government should have the power to declare war. Not any more. If anything, the people should reserve that power and exercise it through voting. The same is true of a myriad of other roles government plays today. Take China as an example: Over a billion people allowed a handful of people in Beijing to keep them from having more than one child. Over a billion people. Really? What is it about the human condition that we allow such things to happen. The point isn't to argue about the merit of the decision in the context of population explosion. I believe that those things take care of themselves one way or the other. The point here is that a society of over a billion people somehow allows a handful of communist leaders to control their reproductive rights. That's just wrong. If you allow that, of course they are going to come into your schools and indoctrinate the shit out of your children. Here's another example. Times are tough right. Let's say you are unemployed and have to feed your family. You happen to own a fishing pole and live near a lake or stream. Here in California you can't go fishing and feed your family without a fishing license. You have to buy a fishing license in order to engage in the most fundamental act a human being can engage: hunt for food in order to survive. Really? Yes, really? You are not allowed --by government-- to fish, no matter the circumstances. If they catch you fishing without a license it can cost thousands of dollars and possibly end up doing time in jail. In what alternate reality does this make any sense whatsoever. OK, I understand about conservation, etc., etc. Still, it is my right, as a human being on this planet, to hunt, fish and farm in order to feed myself and my family. No government should have the power to prevent me from doing so. If John Lennon wrote that song thinking about communism then I have to find other words to describe some of my ideas, because communism is far, far from it. When I read the words to the song I don't interpret communism in there but rather people living freely WITHOUT or with minimal government. Now, before anyone goes off on me. Admittedly the problem is very complex and, if it can even happen, it would take centuries of cultural evolution in order to reach even a portion of what I am talking about. Take religion as an example. It's got to go. That will, I am sad to say, take a very long time. The same is true of the attachment to the concept of countries. That's got to go too. Earth. One people. True freedom. Not government subjugation. Government must be reduced to administrative workers who work for us, not against us.

by mhartl 14y ago

robomartin 14y ago

I don't interpret it that way and certainly don't propose communism. I'm a libertarian, so that would be diametrically opposed to my beliefs. All I am saying is that I think --again, this is my belief-- that the future of humanity probably lies in no countries and governments reduced to simple administrative tasks. I have no desire to be at war with some guy in Iran or Afghanistan any more than a family man there wants to be at war with me. Governments start these things and rope us all into them. I mean, look at World War 1. Why did it even start? http://www.firstworldwar.com/origins/causes.htm http://www.firstworldwar.com/origins/causes.htm Governments. Not the people. Governments. Thirty seven million casualties. http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/resources/casdeath_pop.html http://www.pbs.org/greatwar/resources/casdeath_pop.html Did the farmer or doctor in Germany or Russia want to go to war? Probably not. It was their stupid governments that triggered the entire thing and tens of millions died for it. And that's my point. Governments as we have known them for the last century or two need to mutate into something very different in order for us to evolve further as a society and culture. We can't have the kinds of things you are seeing around the world happen to us. Nobody "owns" me or you. Therefore, the whole concept of governments telling and dictating what we can and cannot do is at odds with what I might call "natural" laws. I, we, hire government workers to do things for us that have community scope. Build roads. Run the local school. Upholds laws that we agree upon, etc. Beyond that, things are completely upside-down. No government should have the power to declare war. Not any more. If anything, the people should reserve that power and exercise it through voting. The same is true of a myriad of other roles government plays today. Take China as an example: Over a billion people allowed a handful of people in Beijing to keep them from having more than one child. Over a billion people. Really? What is it about the human condition that we allow such things to happen. The point isn't to argue about the merit of the decision in the context of population explosion. I believe that those things take care of themselves one way or the other. The point here is that a society of over a billion people somehow allows a handful of communist leaders to control their reproductive rights. That's just wrong. If you allow that, of course they are going to come into your schools and indoctrinate the shit out of your children. Here's another example. Times are tough right. Let's say you are unemployed and have to feed your family. You happen to own a fishing pole and live near a lake or stream. Here in California you can't go fishing and feed your family without a fishing license. You have to buy a fishing license in order to engage in the most fundamental act a human being can engage: hunt for food in order to survive. Really? Yes, really? You are not allowed --by government-- to fish, no matter the circumstances. If they catch you fishing without a license it can cost thousands of dollars and possibly end up doing time in jail. In what alternate reality does this make any sense whatsoever. OK, I understand about conservation, etc., etc. Still, it is my right, as a human being on this planet, to hunt, fish and farm in order to feed myself and my family. No government should have the power to prevent me from doing so. If John Lennon wrote that song thinking about communism then I have to find other words to describe some of my ideas, because communism is far, far from it. When I read the words to the song I don't interpret communism in there but rather people living freely WITHOUT or with minimal government. Now, before anyone goes off on me. Admittedly the problem is very complex and, if it can even happen, it would take centuries of cultural evolution in order to reach even a portion of what I am talking about. Take religion as an example. It's got to go. That will, I am sad to say, take a very long time. The same is true of the attachment to the concept of countries. That's got to go too. Earth. One people. True freedom. Not government subjugation. Government must be reduced to administrative workers who work for us, not against us.